Dying BP-U60 batteries at DVinfo.net

Warren Kawamoto · November 18th, 2011, 06:36 PM

I have 2 batteries, one manufactured in 2007, the other 2008. I recharged them 258 times, and 284 times respectfully. I've noticed that recently, instead of all 4 leds lighting up, only 3 does on full charge. Just yesterday, my 2007 battery couldn't hold the charge for long and is down to 2 led lights, signalling the end of it's useful life with my EX1.

My question to all..how old is your battery, and how many recharges do you have on it? If your battery lasted longer than mine, did you drain your batteries completely? Or do you try to keep them topped off all the time? In my case, I always tried to keep them topped off, and recharged them after every use, never letting them drain completely.

You can find out about your battery by mounting it on your camera, then going into the camera menu, under "battery info."

Warren Kawamoto · November 18th, 2011, 09:24 PM

Wow, take a look at this newly discovered technology! I hope it trickles down to video cameras as well.

Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x | ExtremeTech

Taky Cheung · November 19th, 2011, 01:11 AM

We have Comer brand compatible BP-U65 and BP-U95 batteries. Price is so much affordable, only the catch is, the battery won't power up the camera directly. You have to plug in a short cord from the battery to the camera AC In jack.

Sony Compatible BP-U65 Battery for Sony EX1/EX3 | L.A. Color Online
Sony Compatible BP-U95 Battery for Sony EX1/EX3 | L.A. Color Online

Dave Sperling · November 19th, 2011, 09:59 AM

I also have some old U-30 and U-60 batteries that are only charging to the 3-LED level, but realistically speaking at 3 1/2 years old and 180 charge cycles, I'm happy that they still are as functional as they are.
I do like the fact that the 'batt power time remaining' in the viewfinder still seems pretty accurate for them, which is something that I don't get from the big EX-96 battery I sometimes use for long events when I need to power an LED sungun as well. I'm thinking that by the end of their useful life, my batteries will end up having cost less than $1 per charge cycle, so amortizing the cost over all those shoot days it hasn't been particularly expensive. And I'm generally pretty happy getting 3 years from any lithium ion battery. (Which is certainly better than I ever got from my old Dionic 90's) Presumably they'll be heading for the recycle bin once they drop to the 2-led level.

Warren Kawamoto · November 20th, 2011, 01:20 AM

Here is some useful information about li-ion batteries, and how to prolong it's life.
How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

From what I see in table 2 and 3, these steps can prolong your batt life:
1. Keep your li-ion batteries in the fridge. Heat is it's enemy.
2. Recharging your battery after partial use is better than draining it completely.
3. If you plan to store your battery, store it at 40% capacity as opposed to it being 100% charged.

I'll be a guinea pig and try this: I'll store my batteries in the fridge at 40% capacity, then recharge completely before going on a gig. I'll discharge till it's down to 40%, then throw it back in the fridge until it's time for another gig, then recharge again before going out. I'll report back in a couple of years to see if my batteries lasted longer.

Warren Kawamoto · November 20th, 2011, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Sperling

I also have some old U-30 and U-60 batteries that are only charging to the 3-LED level, but realistically speaking at 3 1/2 years old and 180 charge cycles, I'm happy that they still are as functional as they are.
And I'm generally pretty happy getting 3 years from any lithium ion battery. (Which is certainly better than I ever got from my old Dionic 90's)

Dave, do you discharge your batteries completely before recharging them? Or do you discharge to a specific level before recharging? I usually discharge about halfway before recharging.
I also have dionic 90's, and I've been getting about 2.5-3 years from them. Again, I discharge about halfway before recharging.

Dave Gosley · November 20th, 2011, 05:57 AM

I had same with a BP-IL series and didn't want to get rid of it being conscious of waste.
I had it re-celled by Refurbish and recycle your batteries | recellyourbattery.com for £80 which is about half the price of a new battery.

It came back good as new (performance wise) and all the electronics still work as they are supposed to (test button and led level indicators).

I have no doubt there are other outfits who can do the same - but I can also understand a level of doubt that lingers in the mind about what you are going to get back.

The performance of my battery since it was returned is slightly better than it was when the battery came with the camera (sh). When I spoke to the guys at the company in the first instance they did warn me that the performance was going to be slightly better - as the cell development has improved dramatically since the battery was originally made. Even though they used the same cell part code the overall performance / spec is an improvement over the original.

All up - I am totally delighted with the result and based on my experience would recommend having old batt's re-celled, I will be doing it again with all my fleet as time goes on. Of course - I fully expect someone to rain on this with a bad experience...

Dave Sperling · November 20th, 2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Kawamoto

Dave, do you discharge your batteries completely before recharging them? Or do you discharge to a specific level before recharging? I usually discharge about halfway before recharging.
I also have dionic 90's, and I've been getting about 2.5-3 years from them. Again, I discharge about halfway before recharging.

Hi Warren,
I tend not to be that organized with my batteries, though in general I'll keep a battery on the camera until it shows about 15-20 minutes of time remaining before taking it off and replacing it with a fresh one. What this means is that most of the time only the final battery of the day ends up with a partial charge, depending how much it was used. If a fair amount of its capacity was used it gets recharged, but if it's only been on the camera a little bit it gets used as a 'setup battery' the next day. I usually have enough betteries with me that I don't need to worry about recharging during the day.
However, when I'm on the road and not carrying as many batteries (or chargers) as I have at home, I'll tend to throw batteries onto charge as soon as they run down to 20-30 minutes remaining, and even slightly used batteries get a refresher charge overnight -- since I'm more concerned about providing runtime than about battery longevity.
Also, when I go on the road I'll tend to carry my newest batteries (most runtime per weight), so the '3-LED' batteries get left at home...

Alex Dolgin · November 20th, 2011, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Kawamoto

Dave, do you discharge your batteries completely before recharging them? Or do you discharge to a specific level before recharging? I usually discharge about halfway before recharging.
I also have dionic 90's, and I've been getting about 2.5-3 years from them. Again, I discharge about halfway before recharging.

Warren, storing the Li-Ion batteries in discharged state makes them last longer, but the improvement is very small (may be 2-4%/year), so unless you put them away for a long time, it makes no real difference. Charging or discharging them after each use only wears them out, no benefit at all. In general, the Li-Ion cells age about 10%/year even while not in use, and deliver about 300 full charge /discharge cycles in their lifetime. So your experience is right on.The BP-U60 batteries have a built in fuel gauge computer for accurate state of charge reporting. All the generics use more simple way of state of charge reporting.
HTH

John Peterson · November 27th, 2011, 08:15 AM

The confusion comes from variable recommendations.

Battery University (cited above) seems to have the most comprehensive study on the subject, yet in the Wikipedia article on this subject, they list Battery University as an "unreliable source" despite the fact that they cite it anyway, but only for "Charging Procedure"

Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yet on the subject of "Prolonging battery pack life" Wikipedia again cites Battery University, but does NOT call it an "unreliable source" on that subject.

Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Like Wikipedia, I couldn't find anything more comprehensive than Battery University myself either so I tend to follow what they recommend. The testing appears to have been done by Cadex.

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

John

November 18th, 2011, 06:36 PM	#1
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	Dying BP-U60 batteries I have 2 batteries, one manufactured in 2007, the other 2008. I recharged them 258 times, and 284 times respectfully. I've noticed that recently, instead of all 4 leds lighting up, only 3 does on full charge. Just yesterday, my 2007 battery couldn't hold the charge for long and is down to 2 led lights, signalling the end of it's useful life with my EX1. My question to all..how old is your battery, and how many recharges do you have on it? If your battery lasted longer than mine, did you drain your batteries completely? Or do you try to keep them topped off all the time? In my case, I always tried to keep them topped off, and recharged them after every use, never letting them drain completely. You can find out about your battery by mounting it on your camera, then going into the camera menu, under "battery info."

November 18th, 2011, 09:24 PM	#2
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	Re: Dying BP-U60 batteries Wow, take a look at this newly discovered technology! I hope it trickles down to video cameras as well. Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x \| ExtremeTech

November 19th, 2011, 01:11 AM	#3
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	Re: Dying BP-U60 batteries We have Comer brand compatible BP-U65 and BP-U95 batteries. Price is so much affordable, only the catch is, the battery won't power up the camera directly. You have to plug in a short cord from the battery to the camera AC In jack. Sony Compatible BP-U65 Battery for Sony EX1/EX3 \| L.A. Color Online Sony Compatible BP-U95 Battery for Sony EX1/EX3 \| L.A. Color Online __________________ LA Color Pros Blog RODE Authorized Reseller . Comer LED Camera Lights . TakyBox HTML5 Menu Generator

November 19th, 2011, 09:59 AM	#4
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: Dying BP-U60 batteries I also have some old U-30 and U-60 batteries that are only charging to the 3-LED level, but realistically speaking at 3 1/2 years old and 180 charge cycles, I'm happy that they still are as functional as they are. I do like the fact that the 'batt power time remaining' in the viewfinder still seems pretty accurate for them, which is something that I don't get from the big EX-96 battery I sometimes use for long events when I need to power an LED sungun as well. I'm thinking that by the end of their useful life, my batteries will end up having cost less than $1 per charge cycle, so amortizing the cost over all those shoot days it hasn't been particularly expensive. And I'm generally pretty happy getting 3 years from any lithium ion battery. (Which is certainly better than I ever got from my old Dionic 90's) Presumably they'll be heading for the recycle bin once they drop to the 2-led level.

November 20th, 2011, 01:20 AM	#5
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	Re: Dying BP-U60 batteries Here is some useful information about li-ion batteries, and how to prolong it's life. How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University From what I see in table 2 and 3, these steps can prolong your batt life: 1. Keep your li-ion batteries in the fridge. Heat is it's enemy. 2. Recharging your battery after partial use is better than draining it completely. 3. If you plan to store your battery, store it at 40% capacity as opposed to it being 100% charged. I'll be a guinea pig and try this: I'll store my batteries in the fridge at 40% capacity, then recharge completely before going on a gig. I'll discharge till it's down to 40%, then throw it back in the fridge until it's time for another gig, then recharge again before going out. I'll report back in a couple of years to see if my batteries lasted longer.

November 20th, 2011, 05:57 AM	#7
Dave Gosley Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hampshire Posts: 226	Re: Dying BP-U60 batteries I had same with a BP-IL series and didn't want to get rid of it being conscious of waste. I had it re-celled by Refurbish and recycle your batteries \| recellyourbattery.com for £80 which is about half the price of a new battery. It came back good as new (performance wise) and all the electronics still work as they are supposed to (test button and led level indicators). I have no doubt there are other outfits who can do the same - but I can also understand a level of doubt that lingers in the mind about what you are going to get back. The performance of my battery since it was returned is slightly better than it was when the battery came with the camera (sh). When I spoke to the guys at the company in the first instance they did warn me that the performance was going to be slightly better - as the cell development has improved dramatically since the battery was originally made. Even though they used the same cell part code the overall performance / spec is an improvement over the original. All up - I am totally delighted with the result and based on my experience would recommend having old batt's re-celled, I will be doing it again with all my fleet as time goes on. Of course - I fully expect someone to rain on this with a bad experience... __________________ http://www.videoproductionshampshire.co.uk

November 27th, 2011, 08:15 AM	#10
John Peterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Monroe, NY Posts: 703	Re: Dying BP-U60 batteries The confusion comes from variable recommendations. Battery University (cited above) seems to have the most comprehensive study on the subject, yet in the Wikipedia article on this subject, they list Battery University as an "unreliable source" despite the fact that they cite it anyway, but only for "Charging Procedure" Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Yet on the subject of "Prolonging battery pack life" Wikipedia again cites Battery University, but does NOT call it an "unreliable source" on that subject. Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Like Wikipedia, I couldn't find anything more comprehensive than Battery University myself either so I tend to follow what they recommend. The testing appears to have been done by Cadex. How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University John