Clip Browser or log & transfer at DVinfo.net

Luc De Wandel · June 5th, 2011, 12:36 PM

An XDCAM-EX newbie question: is there an advantage in using Sony's Clip Browser software to ingest clips in FCP over the log & transfer plug in? At first glance using log & transfer seems easier, faster and more straightforward. But that is probably because I'm missing something...

Craig Seeman · June 5th, 2011, 01:13 PM

While I suspect you're talking about Final Cut Pro, always include details because there are certainly Avid, Premiere, Edius users who also use XDCAM EX cameras.

ClipBrowser and Log & Transfer serve two different purposes on the Mac side of things at least. It's like asking whether you should use a fork or a cup for dinner.

ClipBrowser with CRC On should be used to copy from cards to hard drive. That ensures you have a valid BPAV file before you erase the cards. You should then backup that BPAV on to something else as well. BPAV are your camera masters.

You can use either XDCAM Transfer or FCP Log & Transfer to wrap the files to .mov.
XDCAM Transfer is at version 2.12 and Sony's FCP Log & Transfer is at version 1.2
I prefer using XDCAM Transfer independent of FCP because it gives me the opportunity to review the clips without tying up FCP. It's just a preference though.

Luc De Wandel · June 5th, 2011, 01:33 PM

Hi Craig,

thanks for the quick reply. I mentioned 'FCP' in my question, so I thought that was clear. I understand the difference now. One more question though: before I found out about Clip Brwoser, I used to copy the entire content of the card to a dedicated folder on my back-up disk via 'Finder' and 'drag & drop'. Is there an advantage when copying the clips via Clip Browser, as opposed to my 'dummy' method and as far as safety and quality of the backup is concerned?

Craig Seeman · June 5th, 2011, 02:08 PM

Sorry didn't see FCP reference.
ClipBrowser has CRC if you turn it on. It confirms a data match for the copy.
It's possible to have a bad copy using drag and drop (rare but it happens) and once you erase the card the good master is gone forever. I don't believe in taking risks with camera masters so I always use and recommend ClipBrowser with CRC On for copying clips.

Luc De Wandel · June 5th, 2011, 03:27 PM

OK, that's clear. I'm usually reluctant to get used to another piece of new software, especially when the user interface doesn't look all that handy, but in this case it looks like it's worth wile. Thanks Craig.

Les Wilson · June 6th, 2011, 04:19 AM

Luc,
Another difference in L&T versus XDCAM Transfer is the data in the logging fields. I've found that not all the information put into XDCAM transfer shows up in FCP where as the ones in L&T do show up. L&T also has a nice way to customize the name of the clip.

Philip Howells · June 6th, 2011, 05:00 AM

Luc, am I not correct in understanding that if you don't import via the Clip Browser any long take originals aren't "stitched" together into single, long clips?

Luc De Wandel · June 6th, 2011, 08:02 AM

Yep, from what I read in the Clip Browser manual, that seems to be the case. I haven't experienced this yet, because I do not often shoot clips that surpass 4 Gb in size. So if I do, I guess I'll have to use CB, although I dislike the user interface very much.

Luc De Wandel · June 6th, 2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Wilson

Luc,
Another difference in L&T versus XDCAM Transfer is the data in the logging fields. I've found that not all the information put into XDCAM transfer shows up in FCP where as the ones in L&T do show up. L&T also has a nice way to customize the name of the clip.

The naming feature is an advantage, and that's one of the reasons I like to use log&transfer. But that doesn't mean I have to use Clip Browser, does it?

Doug Jensen · June 6th, 2011, 10:51 AM

I would never rename or customize the name of a clip after it has been recorded. The clip naming parameters that I program into the camera's menu system before I begin shooting will create names that are like serial numbers for the clips -- and they should never be changed. The last thing I need is a clip having different names on the SxS card, in my BPAV archives, in Final Cut's re-wrapped MOV copies, my daily backups, etc. Renaming or modifying a clip name after it has been recorded is not a "feature" I'd ever recommend using.

Les Wilson · June 6th, 2011, 11:04 AM

The specific feature I like about L&T Renaming is to augment the original name with additional text such as a keyword. That way the original name is there to backtrack to the original as well as something informative for the clip during the editing cycle. YMMV

Craig Seeman · June 6th, 2011, 11:12 AM

I wonder if you're creating difficult hurdles to reconstituting a project by renaming clips. Ideally there's meta data, not the file name, that ties the ingested clip to the BPAV master but I don't trust that. If a project goes offline for any reason it may be hard to put the pieces back together. I'd love to hear otherwise though.

Leonard Levy · June 6th, 2011, 01:21 PM

clip browser re-creates a new "virtual SxS card" on your computer instead of just copying the one from your card to the desktop. I use this when I want to consolidate all my actual cards into one. Mostly this is valuable for stitching together spanned cards, but also can simplify your workflow if you like. for example you could put and entire or day's or work , or perhaps one camera's footage on a multicam shoot into one "virtual card". You may lose the reference to which card you used if there was a problem though.

To double check drag and drop card copies use get info to check that the BPAV folder has exactly the same number of bites on original and copy.

June 5th, 2011, 12:36 PM	#1
Luc De Wandel Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium Posts: 963	Clip Browser or log & transfer An XDCAM-EX newbie question: is there an advantage in using Sony's Clip Browser software to ingest clips in FCP over the log & transfer plug in? At first glance using log & transfer seems easier, faster and more straightforward. But that is probably because I'm missing something...

June 5th, 2011, 01:13 PM	#2
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: Clip Browser or log & transfer While I suspect you're talking about Final Cut Pro, always include details because there are certainly Avid, Premiere, Edius users who also use XDCAM EX cameras. ClipBrowser and Log & Transfer serve two different purposes on the Mac side of things at least. It's like asking whether you should use a fork or a cup for dinner. ClipBrowser with CRC On should be used to copy from cards to hard drive. That ensures you have a valid BPAV file before you erase the cards. You should then backup that BPAV on to something else as well. BPAV are your camera masters. You can use either XDCAM Transfer or FCP Log & Transfer to wrap the files to .mov. XDCAM Transfer is at version 2.12 and Sony's FCP Log & Transfer is at version 1.2 I prefer using XDCAM Transfer independent of FCP because it gives me the opportunity to review the clips without tying up FCP. It's just a preference though.

June 5th, 2011, 01:33 PM	#3
Luc De Wandel Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium Posts: 963	Re: Clip Browser or log & transfer Hi Craig, thanks for the quick reply. I mentioned 'FCP' in my question, so I thought that was clear. I understand the difference now. One more question though: before I found out about Clip Brwoser, I used to copy the entire content of the card to a dedicated folder on my back-up disk via 'Finder' and 'drag & drop'. Is there an advantage when copying the clips via Clip Browser, as opposed to my 'dummy' method and as far as safety and quality of the backup is concerned?

June 5th, 2011, 02:08 PM	#4
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: Clip Browser or log & transfer Sorry didn't see FCP reference. ClipBrowser has CRC if you turn it on. It confirms a data match for the copy. It's possible to have a bad copy using drag and drop (rare but it happens) and once you erase the card the good master is gone forever. I don't believe in taking risks with camera masters so I always use and recommend ClipBrowser with CRC On for copying clips.

June 5th, 2011, 03:27 PM	#5
Luc De Wandel Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium Posts: 963	Re: Clip Browser or log & transfer OK, that's clear. I'm usually reluctant to get used to another piece of new software, especially when the user interface doesn't look all that handy, but in this case it looks like it's worth wile. Thanks Craig.

June 6th, 2011, 04:19 AM	#6
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	Re: Clip Browser or log & transfer Luc, Another difference in L&T versus XDCAM Transfer is the data in the logging fields. I've found that not all the information put into XDCAM transfer shows up in FCP where as the ones in L&T do show up. L&T also has a nice way to customize the name of the clip.

June 6th, 2011, 05:00 AM	#7
Philip Howells Trustee Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 1,212	Re: Clip Browser or log & transfer Luc, am I not correct in understanding that if you don't import via the Clip Browser any long take originals aren't "stitched" together into single, long clips?

June 6th, 2011, 08:02 AM	#8
Luc De Wandel Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium Posts: 963	Re: Clip Browser or log & transfer Yep, from what I read in the Clip Browser manual, that seems to be the case. I haven't experienced this yet, because I do not often shoot clips that surpass 4 Gb in size. So if I do, I guess I'll have to use CB, although I dislike the user interface very much.

June 6th, 2011, 10:51 AM	#10
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	Re: Clip Browser or log & transfer I would never rename or customize the name of a clip after it has been recorded. The clip naming parameters that I program into the camera's menu system before I begin shooting will create names that are like serial numbers for the clips -- and they should never be changed. The last thing I need is a clip having different names on the SxS card, in my BPAV archives, in Final Cut's re-wrapped MOV copies, my daily backups, etc. Renaming or modifying a clip name after it has been recorded is not a "feature" I'd ever recommend using. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

June 6th, 2011, 11:04 AM	#11
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	Re: Clip Browser or log & transfer The specific feature I like about L&T Renaming is to augment the original name with additional text such as a keyword. That way the original name is there to backtrack to the original as well as something informative for the clip during the editing cycle. YMMV

June 6th, 2011, 11:12 AM	#12
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: Clip Browser or log & transfer I wonder if you're creating difficult hurdles to reconstituting a project by renaming clips. Ideally there's meta data, not the file name, that ties the ingested clip to the BPAV master but I don't trust that. If a project goes offline for any reason it may be hard to put the pieces back together. I'd love to hear otherwise though.

June 6th, 2011, 01:21 PM	#13
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Re: Clip Browser or log & transfer clip browser re-creates a new "virtual SxS card" on your computer instead of just copying the one from your card to the desktop. I use this when I want to consolidate all my actual cards into one. Mostly this is valuable for stitching together spanned cards, but also can simplify your workflow if you like. for example you could put and entire or day's or work , or perhaps one camera's footage on a multicam shoot into one "virtual card". You may lose the reference to which card you used if there was a problem though. To double check drag and drop card copies use get info to check that the BPAV folder has exactly the same number of bites on original and copy.