Never shot SD with my EX1R - now have to, how to make those avi's into mov's?

[Kent Beeson]

So was just asked to shoot SD on my EX1R, always shot HD with it thus far...It shoots into an avi format not mov as I hoped...I tried using XDcam Browser 1.2 but now way to make these files into mov's? I tried XDcam Transfer 2.12 but it says there aren't any clips on the disk, can't read - they are after all avi's but can I transcode these to mov's as the client wants them to edit in FCP. Or what's best way to transfer these SD clips into mov files, or should I just tell client to edit with the avi's in FCP? Would he just access the avi's in FCP via Log & Transfer? Probably have 14 hours of material...

Thanks
K

...just tried FCP's L&T = didn't even recognize the files - chose my volume, but it didn't import anything. Client really wants them mov's - but should I just say edit with the avi's?

[Craig Seeman]

In my experience FCP handles DV.avi although it will throw a warning.
MPEGStreamClip can wrap DV.avi to .mov without an encode.
Sony Log & Transfer plugin 1.2 for FCP may handle DV.avi as well.
https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.co...l-PDZKLT1.aspx
The ReadMe on L&T 1.2 says it handles DV.avi in FCP.
https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.co...-PDZKLT2A2.pdf

[Kent Beeson]

Great, thanks for the help - that SONY version of L&T worked...danke much

[Olof Ekbergh]

In my experience, and I do deliver a lot in SD still even some 4:3, I keep everything in HD1080.

FCP and others edit the native files fine and the EX codec is really not much larger than the SD DV codec.

It gives you tremendous advantage, not just steadying shots that are a little shaky. But you also can re crop footage if need be. Sometimes I shoot a little wide on interviews and I can the zoom and scan a little in post for effect.

Just a few thoughts. I understand that the client may be set in their ways, but I find this a great way to work. I always set my EX timeline to render in ProRes.

When I am done with the shots I export them as SD, or I export them as reference HD files and then convert to SD on import to the SD project.

[Craig Seeman]

As per Olof, I can't fathom many reasons to shoot in SD (although I have the EX1, it's one reason why I haven't had a desire to go to the 1R).

Editing HD in an SD timeline gives you tremendous ability to reposition shots, pan, dolly, jump from long shot to close up with just one camera. It's as if you've added a Cine Slider to your gear without the cost or setup time.

[Kent Beeson]

I agree 1000% about shooting HD at all times, even suggested strongly same to client - but they want SD 4:3...shame but thanks for the sound advice.

[Craig Seeman]

Originally Posted by Kent Beeson

I agree 1000% about shooting HD at all times, even suggested strongly same to client - but they want SD 4:3...shame but thanks for the sound advice.

It never ceases to amaze me how clients refuse to listen to experienced professionals.

BTW many clients still ask for SD delivery but none of them have ever asked me to shoot in SD. If you read Jan Ozer's new book "Video Compression for Flash, Apple Devices, HTML5" he surveyed many business to business and business to consumer sites and virtually NONE are using 4:3. There may have been a couple of derogatory comments about how a company might be perceived, that used 4:3.

Even in a worse case scenario I'd want 16:9 uncompressed standard def and not 4:3 DV codec. It's very easy to downconvert 720p to 16:9 Standard Def AppleProRes .mov, for example.

[Kent Beeson]

Agreed - so this client is governmental, and I gave good reasons why they'd want HD (future proof, better res, no cost difference, etc)...but it's for their website, they want a simple edit (they said) and want it shot not just delivered in SD 4:3 .

I can never believe that SD still even exists - I think BBC and UK companies abandoned SD around the year 2000 if not mistaken - but still in US there are a handful of places that go for SD.

[Craig Seeman]

Governmental, that explains it. I think Jan mentions in his book that Gov't sites tend to have the lowest standards because they need to reach the widest audience (who may not have the best internet connections).

A 4:3 image uses less pixels and therefore can get away with a lower data than a 16:9 image. I'd still recommend they use and uncompressed SD source. You can always Center Cut when downconverting to 4:3 ProRes which will still be higher quality than DV. Especially since they're looking for .mov they're probably editing on FCP so 4:3 Center Cut ProRes would still give them the SD they need but at better quality than DV codec.

You can even avoid having to do a post shot computer compression downconvert to ProRes with the EX1R. You can output SDI and do the downconvert in camera and record the 4:3 uncompressed file on the computer. You don't have to do this during the shoot (although that would be ideal). You could playback off the recorded SXS (SDHC) card out of the camera afterwords. They'd have their SD 4:3 Uncompressed and you'd have HD masters.

If you're willing to put in the extra time, you could offer them 4:3 uncompressed .mov instead of DV. Unless you're giving them the cards, all they need to know is you're giving them better quality SD .mov than DV.

[Kent Beeson]

Thanks Craig - very helpful thoughts...so if I shot 4:3 (they will be there and will look for it ti be 4:3, ugh), and did what you suggest, output it to computer, how would I do this?

Take the SxS cards (using camera or reader) and then import them to computer in what way to get uncompressed? And mov? (it'll natively be captured of course as avi DVcam)

[Gabe Strong]

I think you are making this harder on yourself than you need to.
Your client wants 4:3 SD. The EX-1R can shoot 4:3 SD.
I'd just give them the 4:3 SD. About 95% of my clients do the same
thing to me (I know, a lot of you here seem to think this is not
done anymore and everyone shoots HD). After too much time spent
doing things like you are talking about, I now just shoot 4:3 SD
and give it to them. If they want that, (and despite talk about HD
and why they might want that, they insist on 4:3 SD,) it is not
worth my time to deal with all the work arounds. I just give them
what they want, and they give me a check and everyone is happy and
I spend less time on it than I would have otherwise. If I am shooting
for myself, I shoot what I want. When a client is paying me money,
I do what they want....that's just my opinion.

[Craig Seeman]

Kent, it depends what the client is looking at. If you're going to record from card to SD uncompressed afterwards you can send the SDI out to the monitor as center cropped downconvert and they'd see SD.

Gabe, it's possible that a client may be thinking SD like the video they've seen from a high end camera going to DigiBeta. If you hand them SD in DV codec they may have issues with the quality you present. I don't believe in giving away services but I do believe in responsibly alerting the client to their SD options. They may well pay a bit more for a higher quality codec. There are options to take the SDI out and record to external recorders while shooting as well.

[Gabe Strong]

Craig,

Certainly, if they want a higher quality SD codec, I would not hesitate
to do that for them! And if the original poster's client would like
a better SD codec, I would agree with you, do it!!!

For whatever reason, the huge majority of my clients are just fine with DV....
and request it specifically! I think last year I did 3 HD shoots.
This year I have done 1 so far. I offer options, including a 'better'
SD codec. I have had 1 client take me up on the better SD codec.
Not sure if it is the crappy economy, the 'good enough' factor, or
just the lack of knowledge, or what. I just know that I have decided
to quit wasting time doing things like shooting HD and downconverting to
DV (because yes, it takes more of my time than just shooting the DV in the
first place) when clients request DV. I have a bad habit of putting in
WAY too many hours to make things just perfect, and 70-80% of the hours I was
putting in, were coming AFTER the client thought the video was fine as is.......
ever since I found that out, I have just been doing EXACTLY what they ask for,
taking my money and using the extra time to play with my kids.

By the way, I've had a TON of requests for HD from people who want
freebies or to pay almost nothing.....which just goes to show you....
people are crazy sometime

[Kent Beeson]

Thanks for everyone's input and help.