Rode NTG-1 or Sanken CS-1e camera mic?

[Malcolm Hamilton]

Hi there,
I currently have the Rode NTG-1 on my EX-1, and I like it. But the other day when I didn't have time to wire someone who was standing six feet away, I had to hope for the best with my camera-mounted NTG-1, and was a bit disappointed when I got back and listened to the results.
I might have been disappointed with any camera mic under these circumstances... I don't know. I came late to doing my own shooting and audio recording, and I've never used any camera mic other than the Rode.
I'm very fond of (and usually would stop to use one of these, but didn't have time on the occasion described above) the little Sanken COS-11 mic that's attached to my Sennheiser RF unit, and so I'm wondering if anyone on this forum has used a Sanken camera-mounted mic... specifically the Sanken CS-1.
(Sanken has just announced the CS-1e, but it's probably quite a bit like the CS-1).
Can anyone tell me if, in fact, I'd notice much of a difference?
(the CS-1e would cost an extra four hundred dollars I think)
Thanks very much,
Malcolm

[Edward Carlson]

Any shotgun mounted on a camera is going to give you marginal results. You're better off wiring the person with your lav or putting the mic on a boom.

[Malcolm Hamilton]

thanks for the reply Edward. And yes, I know you're 100% right about this. I guess I'm wondering this, though: why would people spend $1000 for a mic (that's going to be camera-mounted most of the time), instead of just $300 (the cost of the cheaper Rode NTG-1), if, to get good sound, you always have to put a lav on someone. That $1000 mic must do something better, no?
My question may be naive; I realize that sound is very subjective. But is there anyone on this forum who's used both mics, and can give me some idea of why one costs so much more than the other?
regards, Malcolm

[Edward Carlson]

The $1000 mic will be better on a boom. It may have better frequency response, better off-axis sound rejection, or it might just have a better tonal quality. I have never been able to compare the NTG-1 to anything side by side. I can assure you that if you are buying a $1000 shotgun mic, it's not to mount it to a camcorder.

[Dave Sperling]

I can only comment on the general concept - which is that it's nice to have a mic small enough to fit well on a camera that also can give good sound if needed. I often put an NTG-1 on my EX1 (and will be doing so tonight, since I need to be mobile and stay very low profile, but will also be working with a board feed recorded separately.) I prefer the sound of the NTG-1 to that of the built-in mics, and there's the chance that at times I meay want the 'proximity feel' of sound close to the camera.
However, when sound is more an issue and I need to rig a mic on the camera, I'm more likely to use an NTG-3 or a Sennheiser 416, but they are both larger than the NTG-1. (They give a better 'reach' but I think they are too obtrusive for what I'm shooting today.)
I can't comment on the quality of the Sanken, but the idea of a high quality directional mic that is small enough to mount easily and inobtrusively on a camera, which can also produce good sound on a boom, is always appealing.

[Malcolm Hamilton]

Thank you Dave and Edward for your comments. I've arranged to try out both mics (next month, when the Sanken CS-1e comes out). I'll report back then. If I do like the sound better, Edward, I'll try to use it on a boom or stand if and when I can (I work alone 75% of the time). I'll first test them both mounted on my camera, though, as that's where I'll be using it most of the time.
Regards,
Malcolm

[Matt Davis]

Originally Posted by Malcolm Hamilton

Can anyone tell me if, in fact, I'd notice much of a difference

Well, I feel a bit nervous sharing the following here - the test was for my own uses, and I shared it with a close circle of colleagues. But...

It deals with the Sanken CS1 used in 'voxpops' - along with RE50, AKG D230, Sanken COS-11. As a control, I even included my Neumann TLM103 (not that it's a voxpop mic, but hey...). All recorded at 24/48 onto a Zoom H4n - the dynamic mics used a FEThead phantom powered mic pre-amp (these are great!).

So, please go easy on the lack of scientific method, and my rather silly conclusion - it's amazing how much difference the wind basket makes - 'acoustically transparent'? Snog my donkey, as the saying goes.

So... for fun: YouTube - Voxpop mic tests

And I'll be using the CS1 on a boom or handgrip for voxpops from now on!

[Charles Newcomb]

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss

Snog my donkey, as the saying goes!

I'm almost certain I don't want to know what that means.

The thing you failed to mention about the RE50 is, if it becomes necessary, you can hammer nails with it.

[Matt Davis]

The use of an RE50 to hammer nails in would, in my humble opinion, be the best use of this 'alleged' microphone. I bought it to replace my AKG230 which had suffered a nasty fate on a job. Wish I'd listened to more reviews.

The RE50 sounds like you're recording inside a tupperware sandwich box. Horrible boxy sound with ugly round corners to it. I thought my mic was a dud, but on every audio review I subsequently listened to, I can hear the same colouration (more or less). Okay,I bought it somewhat cheaply, and had read comments and reviews of it being a trusted standard for field recording, but the results were so disappointing, especially compared to my AKG, dropped off a ladder to concrete pavement, dragged along aforementioned pavement, then thrust into bag without its grille assuming it was dead. And even the AKG sounds thin and pale now, compared to the (nude) CS1.

The RE50 is going on eBay.

FWIW, the Rode M1 (which I received by mistake - I wanted the M3, but hey it was a freebie) was quite nice, but needs to be inches away from the mouth, therefore making it unsuitable for voxpops. It also has that 'PA mic' sound where you get mouth noises and squashed transients.

Oh, and 'snog my donkey'? Euphemism for 'kiss my a--.'

[Malcolm Hamilton]

Very valuable posts, Matt.
Thanks very much for them.
Malcolm