Filming from a boat deck; stabilizer on or off?

[Alister Chapman]

We know vibration to be an issue, but vibration can (and should) in most cases be isolated from the camera. If you are not isolating it from the camera adequately then the pictures would most likely appear soft anyway. Shooting with a high speed shutter will also make the problem worse. There will be some shots that will cause issues, but in reality these are quite rare. Was the Alaska footage shot with an EX?? Did the operator use an appropriate shutter speed?

In this thread some people who have not done the types of shot being asked about with an EX are saying it would be ill advised, yet don't have the substance to back up that advice, just speculation.

Here is a real example of real footage shot with an EX from a rocking, bobbing, vibrating boat. I chose some of the wobbliest, worst bits but I can't see anything that would prevent me from using the footage, other than the excessive camera movement, which is not the fault of the EX.

Using CMOS (EX1) to shoot from boats on Vimeo

Some people read through these forums and have the fear of God put into them over CMOS and Skew issues. Yes they exist and people should be aware of them, but it has to be put into perspective. I see it all the time at the workshops that I run, where someone has read somewhere that you can't pan or shoot from a moving car etc. Skew is not going to cause most people issues under normal shooting conditions. If skew really was such a big deal I wouldn't be able use them for my severe weather shoots where I shoot from moving cars and get buffeted by hurricane force winds.

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by Dave Morrison

I've been trying to find this clip for a couple days. It goes back to the early days of the EX1 forum and shows some pretty serious "jellovision" onboard a boat:
EX1 filming on vibrating boat
dave

I do not believe for one second that this video was shot with a properly functioning EX1.
That's right, I'm saying it's total BS unless someone can produce the original clip with metadata.

[Paul Cronin]

Alister I do not think the skew or rolling shutter problem in those clips. I do think it is too shaky and blown out a bit.

I will post a clip that is the worst shake I would let go to a client two years ago. My standards have gone up. It was shot a few years ago and hand held not stabilizer just the EX1. Let me find it and I will post the link.

And by no means am I saying the EX1 is not up to the job. The EX1 is the best money making camera I have owned and that is why there is still one in the kit. But I am always looking to upgrade my footage and my client base whIch I have done a great job at over the years. That is why I always try to give advice that has helped me move up the ladder quickly and suggest CCD and gyros or gyro lens.

Will post the worst shake clip I allow shortly.

Doug,
Why would someone use 1/500 on a shot like that? Just helps prove what you are saying.

[Paul Cronin]

Here is the clip I mentioned all shot with EX1 hand held no stabilizer and no shoulder mount. This is the most shake I would feel right to give a client.

Alerion 33 sailing clips By Paul Cronin On ExposureRoom

[Bo Skelmose]

I am aware of the problems in telling the problems of a camera that someone own and love.
As a mother they would defend it with fists and nails. It is okay. I do love my ex 3 and use it for the most of my recordings - but as with my children - someone is better doing something than the others are. That does not mean that I do not love them all. I can see the great job my ex3 and PMW-EX350 does - but also the benefits you can obtain, using the CCD in my HPX2100. There must also be a reason why Sony makes a high cost SxS camera with CCD's - just said if you do not believe my word which is not followed by metadata.....

[Paul Cronin]

Bo, I think Doug was talking about Dave's post not yours.

[Bo Skelmose]

He was - I just do not know how to transfer metadata to a forum :)
Guess we just have to trust what people say when they are saying that they filmed something with a certain camera. Like Alisters that - from my guess - easily could have been filmed with a CMOS camera.
Guess we are moving away from the point - could you film a boat standing on another, with the optical stabilizer on or off.
From a big sailboat you can film another boat on the water without problems and with the optical stabilizer on - and yes, my guess would be that you can do it with a CMOS camera as well as a CCD camera. But if you - as I can - take the camera I want for a certain job - I would choose a CCD camera to be certain of the best product.

[Paul Cronin]

Bo, you can cut and paste the metadata from the XDCAM transfer. And if it is .MXF it is on the disk or card. Not sure how to get it off the panasonic.

I am sure Doug knows a better way.

[Alister Chapman]

Paul: Those clips of mine are intended to show that even when the camera is wobbling all over the place skew is not an issue. They are not clips that made it into the finished piece and I'm not proud of them. The shooting conditions were far from ideal, choppy, confused sea with some swell and a 4m RIB (not my choice). Yes they are hot, but I was just trying to stay in the boat. TBH the shoot was a disaster, mainly down to the wrong camera boat being provided by the client.

Bo, your getting CCD and CMOS muddled in your posts. My footage is CMOS. I had the choice of my EX1 or a PDW-700 for that shoot. I chose the EX1 as on a very small boat it's easier to manage, especially when the sea is far from smooth. I was not worried about whether it was CMOS or CCD, the compact size and image stabiliser made the EX1 the better choice for me on that particular shoot.. There is more to producing the best product than whether the camera has a CCD sensor or a CMOS one.

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by Bo Skelmose

He was - I just do not know how to transfer metadata to a forum :)

Bo, I was not addressing any comments to you, nor do I have any interest in seeing your metadata. Paul is correct, I'm referring to the video Dave Morrison linked to. That is the one that I want to see proof that it was really shot with an EX1. I simply don't believe it was shot with a properly running, production model EX1. In over three years of shooting with the EX1, in hundreds of situations, I have never seen anything that came even close to what that video claims to show. It looks like an SLR to me. I do not believe it was actually shot with an EX1. Period. I'd become a believer if I could see the original clip with metadata. Until then, I'm not buying it.

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

There is more to producing the best product than whether the camera has a CCD sensor or a CMOS one.

Alister, you are exactly right. I could not agree with you more. I'd have no second thoughts about taking any of the XDCAM EX camcorders out on a boat. Nor would I have any second thoughts about using my Canon XF305 on a boat, which is also CMOS. But I'd never shoot anythng with that kind of motion with an SLR.

[Dave Morrison]

I apologize if anybody thinks I threw a skunk into the room with that clip. If it wasn't from an EX1, I'll apologize to one and all without hesitation. When this thread began, I immediately remembered this clip simply becasue it WAS so extreme. I came across it back when I first started hanging around this forum and bookmarked it at the time so that I'd know what "jellovision" looked like. If it was shot with another brand or type of camera, I never would have bookmarked it as it would not add anything to my research re: the EX1.

I'll go back and search the archives for the original posting and the link that lead to this clip, but please know (Doug) that I would not knowingly try to cast any aspersions on the EX1. I love the camera very much. Off to search.....and to try to get Doug's blood pressure back down! ;-)

[Paul Cronin]

Alister I was not saying you used that in a production. Only stating the other problems I saw with the footage.

I am in full agreement that the EX1 will work fine shooting from a boat as my clips shows. Also stand behind my statement that with CCD you will have higher grade footage on the same shoot as you would expect.

Lets move on.

[Dave Morrison]

Here you go, Doug:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...nstration.html

You can blame Matt for this clip.

[Doug Jensen]

Okay, I was wrong. I guess I can accept that it was really shot with an EX1, but I don't think the camera was operating normally. Even though Matt seems to have tried to make it look that bad just to prove a point, I still find hard to believe that a properly working EX1 could be made to do it. There's something else going on with that footage. In my opinion, anyone who thinks that clip should have any influence on their decision of when/where/how to use an EX1 is making a mistake. I will gladly use my EX1 in any shooting situation.

Oh Dave, don't worry, I wasn't faulting you for linking to the clip. I hope I didn't give that impression.