File management part 2

[David Morgan]

thx to all for helping with the BPAV folder copy questions.
what is the procedure for getting rid of unwanted media after the full batch of clips has been copied?
If I have a full hour of media that was copied to my hard drive, how do you look at and trim and delete unwanted media (that's taking up hard drive space on my archive drive or working media drive) without using a NLE?

#2- actually, now that I'm thinking of it, even if you open a project with an NLE and import clip segments or sub-clips from XDCAM transfer, how do you delete the unused clips and media that your sure you don't need?

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by David Morgan

how do you look at and trim and delete unwanted media (that's taking up hard drive space on my archive drive or working media drive) without using a NLE?

Actually, the workflow totally depends on the NLE you are using. For example, if you are using FCP, you could use XDCAM Transfer to create subclips that only contain the important parts of the clips that you want to retain and/or import. And within FCP there are also other methods that can be just as effective (and still don't require rendering or transcoding) if you have already converted the clips to MOV files and no longer have access to the original files in the BPAV folders. You should familiarize yourself with FCP's Media Manager function. It's very powerful and often overlooked by a lot of people. It will do exactly what you are looking for.

[David Morgan]

thx for the reply. so if I create sub clips using XDCAM Transfer, I can delete the "master" full length clips and just keep my selections? I typically record shows that may go over an hour. I don't always need to edit them right away.
Sometimes I only want to keep 15 minutes. So, I want to get rid of the excess footage on my media drive and probably on the archive drive as well to save space.

BTW Doug, maybe it's time to do an addendum to your EX series. How about a disc devoted to file management? 1 hour long should do it :-)

[Doug Jensen]

Hi David,

Thanks for the suggestion for a new DVD, but I honestly don't think the workflow is complicated enough to fill 5 minutes, let alone an hour. Once again, I'll suggest that you take the time to learn about FCP's Media Manager. If you need further information than what you can learn on your own, then I suggest getting some FCP training from Larry Jordan and/or Lynda.com. Larry is my idol when it comes to training.

[David Morgan]

Well, I don't know about 5 minutes.....
I realize there are options when your using a NLE. However, let's say I didn't have one. It seems that all of these programs are designed to be in front of an editing application, much like log and capture would be in a tape application. With tape, you can "capture now" (the whole tape), or, mark in & out points and then batch capture.
I was interested in whether one of these apps could be used to preview and trim/delete media after it was on the hard drive, without forwarding or importing it into a NLE. If I were to copy a whole hour, single clip from a 32 gig card, I want the ability to browse the media and delete media after the copy. One reason would be if I'm shooting multiple shows in one day or several days, I may not have time or want to create a NLE project and go through the processes of marking and importing, just so I can clear my cards.

[Doug Jensen]

Well, maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't understand what the issue is. What difference does it make what application you use to get the job done . . . or whether you do it with an NLE or some kind stand-alone utility software? If the goal is to get the job done, why not use the most appropriate tool? If you want to drive a nail, use a hammer. If you want to cut lumber, use a saw. Don't try to do one task with the the other tool or vice versa just because it was the first thing you grabbed out of the tool box.

Why can't you use an NLE??? Ulitmately, time is money and NLEs are dirt cheap these days.
Pick the right tool that will get the job done (I know for a fact that FCP will do what you are asking about) and get on with it. You mentioned XDCAM Transfer in your first post, so you must have FCP, right? Seriously, it takes less time to create a new FCP project and add the raw footage to a bin than it does for me to type this sentence. Then, using FCP's Media Manager, I could literally cut down 32GB of raw footage in a matter of minutes once I had made the creative decisions of what to keep and what to toss. There'd be no transcoding, no rendering, and no loss of quality. Very easy.

I apologize if I'm missing your point, but I just don't get what you are trying to accomplish by avoiding the use of an NLE.

[David Morgan]

yep, your probably right. I must not be seeing the "whole picture". I'll just mess with the process more and see where it takes me.
thx for the input.

[Duncan Craig]

You are missing the bigger picture I think.

Copy the BPAVs to a pair of hard drives and verify the copies before you delete the cards. These are you rushes, you need them keep them intact forever right?. Then at a later date use the Sony tools or your NLE to trim the clips during input to your NLE.

1 hour is around 16GB, a tiny amount of space even on a cheap laptop!

Duncan.

[Steve Kalle]

Ummm, I totally get what David is asking.

In ClipBrowser, you can select new In and Out points of a clip and then right click to create a NEW clip based on the new In/Out points.

Furthermore, by using FCP's media manager, wouldn't you need to transcode first, thus taking more time and space than ClipBrowser?

[Vincent Oliver]

When I first started with ClipBrowser I too made some very accurate In and Out points and created new clips, the trouble came when I wanted to do a slow dissolve into a scene, I didn't have enough material for a lead in to the action. Now I just keep the entire clips in tact and use Premiere or After Effects to trim the clips. As Duncan rightly points out, storage is so cheap why bother making new trimmed clips.

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by Steve Kalle

Furthermore, by using FCP's media manager, wouldn't you need to transcode first, thus taking more time and space than ClipBrowser?

The answer is NO. See my earlier posts. There is no transcoding or rendering.

Clip Browser and XDCAM Transfer are not the answer he is looking for. If you go back and re-read David's original post he says: "what is the procedure for getting rid of unwanted media after the full batch of clips has been copied?"

Note the use of the word "AFTER". AFTER import the best way is with FCP's Media Manager. Yeah, storage is cheap, but who wants a bunch of clutter they'll never need? I use Media Manager at the end of every project to throw away all the MOV files (and pieces of MOV files) that didn't actually get used in the project. For example, if I've got 5 takes of something and I only used the best one, why would I want to keep the other 4? They're junk. I've got a pretty big basement in my home, but I still throw away garbage.

Media Manager even allows you to specify how many seconds of head/tail to preserve on each clip -- over and above what you actually used in the project.

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by Steve Kalle

In ClipBrowser, you can select new In and Out points of a clip and then right click to create a NEW clip based on the new In/Out points.

Using Clip Browser or XDCAM Transfer that way is great if you already know exactly what you're going to need in your edit. But suppose you don't. I normally load in everything I shot, then, after the edit, trash all the stuff that ultimately didn't get used. It takes me less than a minute to accomplish it. Personally, that works best for me. Your needs may be different.

[Vincent Oliver]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

I use Media Manager at the end of every project to throw away all the MOV files (and pieces of MOV files) that didn't actually get used in the project. For example, if I've got 5 takes of something and I only used the best one, why would I want to keep the other 4? They're junk. I've got a pretty big basement in my home, but I still throw away garbage.

Perhaps I didn't get the point either, but you are quite right when you say "at the end of every project" you throw away the garbage clips. I understood that David wanted to throw away the unwanted clips before he had used them in a NLE. It would take a very brave worker to throw away clips before they had been fully reviewed within the context of a production. I have clips which didn't work as a shot, but when placed in context with other clips they work.

I too have a big basement and a very large loft, it is full of rubbish already maybe it's time to dump my copies of Photoshop 2.00, 3, 4, 5, 6, CS2, CS3 and CS4 along with countless other software packages, my old macs (7600 & G3) and about 22 printers. Not to mention about 500+ copies of my Nikon D40x user guide DVDs

Have a great Christmas and a very Happy New Year

Vincent xx

[Doug Jensen]

Hey Vincent, I think we can all use some spring cleaning! Want a couple of Betacams or PC laptops?
I was looking at some of my old software reference books on the shelf the other day and wondering when I'd ever need to look up anything about Access '97 or PERL ever again? Time to stoke up the fireplace and put those old books to work heating the house.
Have a great holiday.

[Vincent Oliver]

Funny I was also looking at my copy of Access 97 and Photoshop Bible(s), they make good door stops.

Will put box of matches in the post for you Doug :-)