2 EX3's & 1 EX1 + Genlock & TC at DVinfo.net

Steve Kalle · December 11th, 2010, 09:14 PM

I know you can keep an EX1 & EX3 in sync but is this possible:

- take the Timecode from one EX3 to the other EX3 and the composite from the EX1 to one of the EX3's Genlock so all 3 have their frames in sync?

- And by using Time of Day for TC on each camera, could it be possible that each camera will then have identical timecodes?

I need the answer to this to determine whether we order a 2nd EX3 (if it works) or a 2nd EX1 (if it doesn't work).

Thanks

Andrew Stone · December 11th, 2010, 09:41 PM

I believe both Alister and Olof have mentioned syncing with 2 cameras this way, an ex1 and and an ex3.

Hopefully they will see this thread and chime in.

Olof Ekbergh · December 12th, 2010, 09:14 AM

I have not tried with the 3 cam setup you describe.

You would also have to genlock the second EX3.

It would be difficult, but doable with patience and lots of tries, to match the TC to the exact frame by hand.

I take a different approach, when matching an EX1 with an EX3, I get the TC within a second or so, it will drift a bit during the day as well. I set the TC in all cameras to free run (or TOD) then I use a slate with a digital LCD clock on it for each scene.

This way all the TC is very close, I display the different clips in FCP or whatever NLE sorted by starting TC. I can then find matching TC clips easily, a separate bin/folder for each camera.

This may not be practical for your way of working but it works very well for me. And the cameras do not need cabling for genlock when shooting. This will work with any cameras really.

I now also have a slate app on my Iphone that I can use to sync cameras. I have not used it yet, but it looks cool and is always in my pocket. I is called AClapBoard, I also have an app called Easy Release that works well.

David Heath · December 12th, 2010, 05:51 PM

With 2 EX3s and an EX1, you should be able to keep all the cameras in perfect frame sync (make the EX1 the "master"), but whilst the EX3s can be arranged to have exactly the same timecode, there's no easy way to lock all three timecodes, the EX1 will have a fixed offset to the other two. It shouldn't matter too much as long as no camera gets turned off during the shoot - because the EX1 is genlocked to the EX3s, the timecode offset will be identical at start and end. (Even if the cameras aren't actually recording all the time.)

Another easy way to get initial sync is with a still camera flash.

The obvious point is that it becomes far easier with 3 EX3s........?

Steve Kalle · December 13th, 2010, 12:07 AM

Thank you all for the comments.

Editing multi-cam will be temporary until we get a switcher, which brings up other questions and issues. I am considering either the Tricaster TXCD300 ($15k) or the Panansonic AV-HS400A + nanoFlash combo. 80% of our multi-cam will be 'news' style programs with 2-5 people and the other 20% will be small concerts and possibly high school graduations.

Philip Howells · December 18th, 2010, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Heath

Another easy way to get initial sync is with a still camera flash.

After several years missing working in studios with everything genlocked, I've now spent four years multicamming three z1s.

I tried flash as the sync source but the 1000th sec duration didn't always show up on the video. I've since always used sound sources as the sync point. Of course it's a bit more fiddly taking the vision out to synch then re-activating it for the syncing but that's a small price to pay. Within the tolerance of NLE editors I've never failed to get good sync points, even when the cameras were 50 or 100m apart.

Neil Hurley · December 18th, 2010, 06:50 AM

Hi,
This is an interesting thread.I don't own any of these cameras but I am wondering if it would be neccessary/ recommended to sync the 3 cameras to a master source such as a Lockit box? Thanks in advance, Neil.

Alister Chapman · December 18th, 2010, 12:49 PM

You can't sync an EX1 externally, so the EX1 has to be come the master. You can take the Y component or composite video out from the EX1 and feed that into the first EX3, then take the monitor out or Y component out from that EX3 to the next EX3.

Alternately use the EX1 to jam sync each Lockit box before connecting the lockit box sync output to the EX3's

Steve Kalle · December 18th, 2010, 01:14 PM

Thanks Alister.

I read the manual and it only mentioned genlock and 24p (the settings it said are 24psf & 60i for 24p). I usually shoot in 30p. Will the cameras automatically enable Genlock and the proper settings? I am getting a BNC to RCA adapter today so I can start testing on Monday.

Also, I am getting a switcher (Tricaster 300 or Panny HS400) and they have internal frame sync but I read somewhere that its best to already have the cameras synced in order to have perfect lip sync when switching cams. Is this true?

December 11th, 2010, 09:14 PM	#1
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	2 EX3's & 1 EX1 + Genlock & TC I know you can keep an EX1 & EX3 in sync but is this possible: - take the Timecode from one EX3 to the other EX3 and the composite from the EX1 to one of the EX3's Genlock so all 3 have their frames in sync? - And by using Time of Day for TC on each camera, could it be possible that each camera will then have identical timecodes? I need the answer to this to determine whether we order a 2nd EX3 (if it works) or a 2nd EX1 (if it doesn't work). Thanks Last edited by Steve Kalle; December 12th, 2010 at 12:04 AM.

December 12th, 2010, 09:14 AM	#3
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	I have not tried with the 3 cam setup you describe. You would also have to genlock the second EX3. It would be difficult, but doable with patience and lots of tries, to match the TC to the exact frame by hand. I take a different approach, when matching an EX1 with an EX3, I get the TC within a second or so, it will drift a bit during the day as well. I set the TC in all cameras to free run (or TOD) then I use a slate with a digital LCD clock on it for each scene. This way all the TC is very close, I display the different clips in FCP or whatever NLE sorted by starting TC. I can then find matching TC clips easily, a separate bin/folder for each camera. This may not be practical for your way of working but it works very well for me. And the cameras do not need cabling for genlock when shooting. This will work with any cameras really. I now also have a slate app on my Iphone that I can use to sync cameras. I have not used it yet, but it looks cool and is always in my pocket. I is called AClapBoard, I also have an app called Easy Release that works well. __________________ Olof Ekbergh • olof@WestsideAV.com Westside A V Studios • http://www.WestsideAVstore.com/

December 18th, 2010, 12:49 PM	#8
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	You can't sync an EX1 externally, so the EX1 has to be come the master. You can take the Y component or composite video out from the EX1 and feed that into the first EX3, then take the monitor out or Y component out from that EX3 to the next EX3. Alternately use the EX1 to jam sync each Lockit box before connecting the lockit box sync output to the EX3's __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

December 11th, 2010, 09:41 PM	#2
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	I believe both Alister and Olof have mentioned syncing with 2 cameras this way, an ex1 and and an ex3. Hopefully they will see this thread and chime in.

December 12th, 2010, 05:51 PM	#4
David Heath Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,699	With 2 EX3s and an EX1, you should be able to keep all the cameras in perfect frame sync (make the EX1 the "master"), but whilst the EX3s can be arranged to have exactly the same timecode, there's no easy way to lock all three timecodes, the EX1 will have a fixed offset to the other two. It shouldn't matter too much as long as no camera gets turned off during the shoot - because the EX1 is genlocked to the EX3s, the timecode offset will be identical at start and end. (Even if the cameras aren't actually recording all the time.) Another easy way to get initial sync is with a still camera flash. The obvious point is that it becomes far easier with 3 EX3s........?

December 13th, 2010, 12:07 AM	#5
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Thank you all for the comments. Editing multi-cam will be temporary until we get a switcher, which brings up other questions and issues. I am considering either the Tricaster TXCD300 ($15k) or the Panansonic AV-HS400A + nanoFlash combo. 80% of our multi-cam will be 'news' style programs with 2-5 people and the other 20% will be small concerts and possibly high school graduations.

December 18th, 2010, 06:50 AM	#7
Neil Hurley New Boot Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Ireland. Posts: 15	Hi, This is an interesting thread.I don't own any of these cameras but I am wondering if it would be neccessary/ recommended to sync the 3 cameras to a master source such as a Lockit box? Thanks in advance, Neil.

December 18th, 2010, 01:14 PM	#9
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Thanks Alister. I read the manual and it only mentioned genlock and 24p (the settings it said are 24psf & 60i for 24p). I usually shoot in 30p. Will the cameras automatically enable Genlock and the proper settings? I am getting a BNC to RCA adapter today so I can start testing on Monday. Also, I am getting a switcher (Tricaster 300 or Panny HS400) and they have internal frame sync but I read somewhere that its best to already have the cameras synced in order to have perfect lip sync when switching cams. Is this true?