Sony EX-1 vs. Sony F3 at DVinfo.net

Drazen Stader · December 7th, 2010, 03:56 AM

Hi,

I've been an early adopter of EX-1 and I have been extremely happy with this camera price performance. Great for run and gun and when circumstances were right I would stick a letus extreme adapter and my set of nikon prime lenses and I would get great results. And now here comes the sony F3 with PL mount and I am thinking to myself...switch or not to switch...so what do I get for additional 15.000 eur...basically not very much...a better bigger sensor for sure...but not much more....same codec, same frame rates (it is a shame to you get overcranking only in 720p mode).... basically same looking body of the camera and maybe an additional credit in the bank to get some appropriate lenses...so for now I am just sticking to my sony ex-1 and letus combo and focusing on lighting, composition and all those things that make the picture standout from the crowd...and maybe scarlet will get me the sweet deal we are all waiting for...and just to sum up here here is a short spoof ad we did recently on a sony ex-1 and letus and cineslider...

Drazen

David C. Williams · December 7th, 2010, 10:44 PM

Seriously, you have not been paying attention at all? 63db vs 54db? 4:4:4 RGB uncompressed SDI vs 4:2:2 YUV SDI? S-Log vs Cinegamma? 1600ASA in S-Log or 800 in Hypergamma vs 25-50ASA with your Letus? 1080/60P vs 1080/30P maximum? 3D link vs None? S35 sensor vs 1/2"? The list goes on...

It says Sony on the box, and they can both record XDCAM EX to SxS. That doesn't make them the same :D

Drazen Stader · December 8th, 2010, 05:42 AM

Hi,

thanks for puting things into perspective....sounds like a serious contender....however I wish it had 4:2:2 and 1080p 60frames per second already onboard....but I guess it is just a sony....

Bob Grant · December 8th, 2010, 06:08 AM

I'd not consider the F3 an EX1 on steroids, It is a different class of camera. If Sony are able to build a 10:1 fast zoom with internal servo motors to go on the front of it that costs less than a kings ransom and can be lifted by one person I think it'll be a world first.

Matt Davis · December 8th, 2010, 08:49 AM

And then some.

S-Log, as Alister Chapman demonstrates (http://www.dvinfo.net/optical-scienc...and-s-log.html), ensures your shots will be hard to expose properly and require high end grading to make the picture look 'normal'. This cuts it out from a lot of profitable work-a-day shoots.

S35 sensor means focus is even more critical, and easy to lose without a focus puller, HD screen etc.

The recorders that can capture 4:4:4 uncompressed on Dual Link HD-SDI are on a different reality plane price-wise.

PL mount glass is in a different price zone too. There were a couple of useful zooms from DigiOptical - $6.5k the pair, but now seem discontinued.

The F3 seems to live in the world of 'rent' rather than 'own' when it comes to glass. Okay, so they offer 3 primes to get you going, but you're looking at five figures for most zooms.

I don't think one can mount, say, Canon lenses to PL mount bodies (would love to be proved wrong on that one).

Okay, the F3 looks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, but it isn't necessarily a duck. More of a sort of proto 'Cyberdyne T1000' duck, which makes it unsuitable for most (ahem, stretching this analogy far too much) duck ponds.

Alister Chapman · December 8th, 2010, 01:04 PM

You are not forced to use S-Log, it is an option. You can use standard or cinegammas, plus hypergammas if you get the 4:4:4 option.

4:4:4 recorders will become much more affordable in the near future. Solid state media is getting cheaper and cheaper, so we can expect to see 4:4:4 versions of devices like the Ki-Pro in the near future. There are also plenty of 4:4:4 cards available for Macs and PC's from the likes of Blackmagic and AJA that cost less than $1000. These same cards can apply Look Up Tables to your S-Log material in real time, so for studio or other shoots where you can have a workstation 4:4:4 recording could actually end up not much more expensive than a bunch of SxS cards.

The PL mount can be detached from the F3 leaving a mount that is almost identical to the EX3 lens mount. Via an adapter you will be able to use low (ish) cost DSLR lenses. I recently picked up a nice Nikon fit, 18 to 70mm F2 zoom that is based on an Angineaux design for £200.00. This should work very well on the F3.

The additional sensitivity over the EX3, at least 1 stop at 0db means that you can stop the lens down more if you don't want shallow DoF. Run the F3 at +6db and there is still less noise than the EX3 and now you have the ability to stop down 2 stops if you don't want shallow DoF.

Yes the F3 is a very different beast to the EX3. But many of the jobs the EX cameras are being used for now would look fantastic shot with an F3. I'm getting a pair of F3's and although I will probably sell my EX3's, I will hang on to my EX1R. I expect the F3 to become my workhorse camera.

Matt Davis · December 8th, 2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

The PL mount can be detached from the F3 leaving a mount that is almost identical to the EX3 lens mount. Via an adapter you will be able to use low (ish) cost DSLR lenses

Thanks for that nugget of info - that changes a lot. I'm 'assuming' (always a dangerous thing) that the F3's sensor would emulate an APS-C or 7D-style 1.6 crop? So one can migrate one's DSLR glass over to the F3? That's a very exciting proposition.

Drazen Stader · December 16th, 2010, 04:28 AM

yep...at the end it will all come down to the glass...coz this will make the major price difference...if you decide to go with original pl mount cine style lenses you better go get a loan...on the other hand if you decide to go the nikon, canon, zeiss ze or zf route you will have a pumped up canon 7d that doesnt shoot stills and does not overcrank over 60fps in 720p....I am still a very happy user of the ex1 which I used with or without lense adapters for over 3 years now and I still find it very useful to have the option to shoot stuff with the stock zoom lense..so instead of selling primes (35, 50, 80) sony should come up with a useful zoom lense option kit because for most of us regular shooters this would be a very interesting option...and here is another short fashion piece that I did with my golden sony ex1 with existing zoom lense...of course having some beautiful ladies in front of the lense does make a big difference....enjoy

December 7th, 2010, 03:56 AM	#1
Drazen Stader Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia Posts: 30	Sony EX-1 vs. Sony F3 Hi, I've been an early adopter of EX-1 and I have been extremely happy with this camera price performance. Great for run and gun and when circumstances were right I would stick a letus extreme adapter and my set of nikon prime lenses and I would get great results. And now here comes the sony F3 with PL mount and I am thinking to myself...switch or not to switch...so what do I get for additional 15.000 eur...basically not very much...a better bigger sensor for sure...but not much more....same codec, same frame rates (it is a shame to you get overcranking only in 720p mode).... basically same looking body of the camera and maybe an additional credit in the bank to get some appropriate lenses...so for now I am just sticking to my sony ex-1 and letus combo and focusing on lighting, composition and all those things that make the picture standout from the crowd...and maybe scarlet will get me the sweet deal we are all waiting for...and just to sum up here here is a short spoof ad we did recently on a sony ex-1 and letus and cineslider... Jure Garac on Vimeo Drazen

December 7th, 2010, 10:44 PM	#2
David C. Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: melb.vic.au Posts: 447	Seriously, you have not been paying attention at all? 63db vs 54db? 4:4:4 RGB uncompressed SDI vs 4:2:2 YUV SDI? S-Log vs Cinegamma? 1600ASA in S-Log or 800 in Hypergamma vs 25-50ASA with your Letus? 1080/60P vs 1080/30P maximum? 3D link vs None? S35 sensor vs 1/2"? The list goes on... It says Sony on the box, and they can both record XDCAM EX to SxS. That doesn't make them the same :D __________________ www.davidwilliams.com.au

December 8th, 2010, 08:49 AM	#5
Matt Davis Trustee Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 1,562	And then some. S-Log, as Alister Chapman demonstrates (http://www.dvinfo.net/optical-scienc...and-s-log.html), ensures your shots will be hard to expose properly and require high end grading to make the picture look 'normal'. This cuts it out from a lot of profitable work-a-day shoots. S35 sensor means focus is even more critical, and easy to lose without a focus puller, HD screen etc. The recorders that can capture 4:4:4 uncompressed on Dual Link HD-SDI are on a different reality plane price-wise. PL mount glass is in a different price zone too. There were a couple of useful zooms from DigiOptical - $6.5k the pair, but now seem discontinued. The F3 seems to live in the world of 'rent' rather than 'own' when it comes to glass. Okay, so they offer 3 primes to get you going, but you're looking at five figures for most zooms. I don't think one can mount, say, Canon lenses to PL mount bodies (would love to be proved wrong on that one). Okay, the F3 looks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, but it isn't necessarily a duck. More of a sort of proto 'Cyberdyne T1000' duck, which makes it unsuitable for most (ahem, stretching this analogy far too much) duck ponds. __________________ Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6

December 8th, 2010, 01:04 PM	#6
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	You are not forced to use S-Log, it is an option. You can use standard or cinegammas, plus hypergammas if you get the 4:4:4 option. 4:4:4 recorders will become much more affordable in the near future. Solid state media is getting cheaper and cheaper, so we can expect to see 4:4:4 versions of devices like the Ki-Pro in the near future. There are also plenty of 4:4:4 cards available for Macs and PC's from the likes of Blackmagic and AJA that cost less than $1000. These same cards can apply Look Up Tables to your S-Log material in real time, so for studio or other shoots where you can have a workstation 4:4:4 recording could actually end up not much more expensive than a bunch of SxS cards. The PL mount can be detached from the F3 leaving a mount that is almost identical to the EX3 lens mount. Via an adapter you will be able to use low (ish) cost DSLR lenses. I recently picked up a nice Nikon fit, 18 to 70mm F2 zoom that is based on an Angineaux design for £200.00. This should work very well on the F3. The additional sensitivity over the EX3, at least 1 stop at 0db means that you can stop the lens down more if you don't want shallow DoF. Run the F3 at +6db and there is still less noise than the EX3 and now you have the ability to stop down 2 stops if you don't want shallow DoF. Yes the F3 is a very different beast to the EX3. But many of the jobs the EX cameras are being used for now would look fantastic shot with an F3. I'm getting a pair of F3's and although I will probably sell my EX3's, I will hang on to my EX1R. I expect the F3 to become my workhorse camera. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

December 16th, 2010, 04:28 AM	#8
Drazen Stader Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia Posts: 30	yep...at the end it will all come down to the glass...coz this will make the major price difference...if you decide to go with original pl mount cine style lenses you better go get a loan...on the other hand if you decide to go the nikon, canon, zeiss ze or zf route you will have a pumped up canon 7d that doesnt shoot stills and does not overcrank over 60fps in 720p....I am still a very happy user of the ex1 which I used with or without lense adapters for over 3 years now and I still find it very useful to have the option to shoot stuff with the stock zoom lense..so instead of selling primes (35, 50, 80) sony should come up with a useful zoom lense option kit because for most of us regular shooters this would be a very interesting option...and here is another short fashion piece that I did with my golden sony ex1 with existing zoom lense...of course having some beautiful ladies in front of the lense does make a big difference....enjoy Nu?a ?enk for Stilago on Vimeo

December 8th, 2010, 05:42 AM	#3
Drazen Stader Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia Posts: 30	Hi, thanks for puting things into perspective....sounds like a serious contender....however I wish it had 4:2:2 and 1080p 60frames per second already onboard....but I guess it is just a sony....

December 8th, 2010, 06:08 AM	#4
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	I'd not consider the F3 an EX1 on steroids, It is a different class of camera. If Sony are able to build a 10:1 fast zoom with internal servo motors to go on the front of it that costs less than a kings ransom and can be lifted by one person I think it'll be a world first.