Capture 10bit 4:2:2 footage? at DVinfo.net

Ilias Papaioannou · September 8th, 2010, 10:49 PM

Hello fellow XDCAM users,

My name is Ilias and I am from Greece. I'm quite new to the video world but I own an XDCAM EX-3. I have found lots of staff to DVinfo about my camera and I want to say thank you all for your sharings.

So, I read that there is an option to take 4:2:2 10bit footage from my EX-3 from the HD-SDI output. I want to ask how can I capture that footage? I think that I have to buy some new equipment but I have no idea if it worths or not or what equipment do I need.

I hope that my question is not so silly and I'll get some answers.

Best regards,
Papaioannou Ilias

Bo Skelmose · September 9th, 2010, 01:41 AM

Hi
To record the material external - look here Convergent Design nanoFlash Forum at DVinfo.net

Luben Izov · September 9th, 2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Skelmose

Hi
To record the material external - look here Convergent Design nanoFlash Forum at DVinfo.net

Hi Bo,
I believe that NanoFlash records at 8bit 4:2:2 via HD-SDI or HDMI

Hello Ilias,
I do believe that KiPro does record 10bit but is more expensive and quite large compared to NanoFlash.
Please read the article below and make your choice
AJA Ki Pro Review
Cheers

Steve Phillipps · September 9th, 2010, 01:22 PM

And the Panasonic HPG20 P2 recorder can do 10 bit 422 to AVC Intra 100. I assume this will work from the EX3 - Sony and Panasonic mating - who would have thought it?!

Steve

Olof Ekbergh · September 9th, 2010, 01:39 PM

AJA has a KIO as well that is a portable solution.

You can also use a AJA Kona, Matrox MX02 or MX02 mini, as well as a few other studio solutions like Black Magic. These require a computer as well.

The NanoFlash is excellent even if it is only 8bit, there is a lot of discussion about this. But for keying etc the NanoFlash works very well, I have never seen any banding even after heavy grading. I usually record at 100mb/sec a sweet spot for long gop. You can also record i frame up to 280mb/s.

I would definitely check out the NF.
Convergent Design > Home

Luben Izov · September 9th, 2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh

AJA has a KIO as well that is a portable solution.

You can also use a AJA Kona, Matrox MX02 or MX02 mini, as well as a few other studio solutions like Black Magic. These require a computer as well.........

Ilias, if you are doing 23.976 or 24 fps you should stay away from MXO2 mini or not! The last time I checked with them MXO2 does not support that frame rate - shame- in this HD world when most Independent film makers are trying to come close to film look and shoot at 23.976 and no support?!? I hope I am wrong and my info is outdated....
If you could compromise with the 8bit NF is the way to go just as Olof said, if not the link I post earlier would get you to AJA with 10 bit and $4K

Andrew Stone · September 9th, 2010, 02:25 PM

If you need 10bit 422 I would recommend the Matrox MXO2 LE. This assumes you have a laptop and you could work in a tethered environment. You would have to get the LE version of the MXO2 as the less expensive units do not have HD-SDI injest ports. Anything bigger than the LE and you will have difficulty running it off 12V batteries.

I looked long and hard at the KiPro before getting the nanoFlash (which records in 422 8 bit) but the feature set was far from complete on its initial release, it gets really hot, it uses proprietary hard drive modules rather than solid state (it does have SxS slots but their use is/was limited). There are a lot of compelling things about the KiPro particularly with it's cross conversion/input-output capabilities, the VTR type controls on the box, the ability to remotely operate the KiPro from an iPhone/iPod but the practical realities set in and nanoFlash came out on top for the majority of the work I would be doing.

The MXO2 LE on the other hand offers a lot of the same good aspects as the KiPro but with a bit more baggage (i.e., the laptop) and you can use it to properly calibrate a computer monitor with an HDMI input to be a "TV" reference monitor back in your editing suite.

Many of us who have bought outboard recorders within the past year or so have gone through a similar redux.

Ultimately, I would say, what do you need to do with the external recorder. It would be ideal to get 10 bit material but the reality is there are a bunch of compromises to get there right now including cost. The nanoFlash opens you up to a whole new market tier for selling material and really it should be about making money and how well the piece of gear makes you function better on set (or on a shoot) not just bragging rights about what specs your gear has.

One other HUGE plus for the nanoFlash is it weighs LESS than a pound. I think 8 ounces. Both important for handheld work, people operating Steadicam or those with a tripod head that is near maxed out. The KiPro is not light once you kit it out with the rails and brackets.

Steve Phillipps · September 9th, 2010, 04:04 PM

The Panasonic HPG20 doesn't even get discussed then?

Steve

Kevin Spahr · September 9th, 2010, 06:34 PM

When doing green screen or other studio shooting I use my MacPro with a Blackmagic Extreme card and capture using the ProRes 422 HQ codec. You will need at least a pair of good hard drives configured as a raid to maintain a suitable write speed. Can't move it around but it works!

Andrew Stone · September 9th, 2010, 09:14 PM

Good point Kevin. You can do that with a Kona card as well. The Kona LHi is the one I would consider as it offers the most flexibility and has HDMI ports. The Matrox MXO2 LE though offers both solutions for a portable and studio setup.

Steve Phillipps · September 10th, 2010, 01:43 AM

HPG20? Could someone at least explain why it wouldn't be a good choice in case I'm missing something?
Media too expensive? Too large (2lbs vs 1lb for Nanoflash).
Steve

Perrone Ford · September 10th, 2010, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

The Panasonic HPG20 doesn't even get discussed then?

Steve

It's big, it's heavy, it only uses expensive P2, it has no HDMI support. It's the most expensive unit by a good margin.

In short, it's the worst value. Though probably a good idea if you have an investment in P2.

Steve Phillipps · September 10th, 2010, 09:18 AM

Cool, thanks Perrone, just wanted someone to actually acknowledge that it existed!
It does give 10 bit though. Worth an extra £1000 and 1lb in weight? To some maybe, but I think I'd chose the Nanoflash too.
Steve

Perrone Ford · September 10th, 2010, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

The Panasonic HPG20 doesn't even get discussed then?

Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

Cool, thanks Perrone, just wanted someone to actually acknowledge that it existed!
It does give 10 bit though. Worth an extra £1000 and 1lb in weight? To some maybe, but I think I'd chose the Nanoflash too.
Steve

The Ki Pro does 10bit, has a better codec, costs less. Not sure on media costs though. I'd say the HPG20 doesn't get talked about because it make little sense for anyone other than a broadcaster or someone with a current investment in P2.

Kevin Spahr · September 10th, 2010, 10:58 AM

The Blackmagic Extreme 3 DOES have HDMI in and out. Along with dual link SDI good for 2K at 10 bit 4.4.4 not to mention full support for ALL the old SD connections. The latest version card handles 3D and has HDMI 1.4 which also supports 3D. The best part is that is still under $1000.

I feel it is one of those product like the HDCAM EX where price and performance creates a great value!

September 8th, 2010, 10:49 PM	#1
Ilias Papaioannou New Boot Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Greece Posts: 21	Capture 10bit 4:2:2 footage? Hello fellow XDCAM users, My name is Ilias and I am from Greece. I'm quite new to the video world but I own an XDCAM EX-3. I have found lots of staff to DVinfo about my camera and I want to say thank you all for your sharings. So, I read that there is an option to take 4:2:2 10bit footage from my EX-3 from the HD-SDI output. I want to ask how can I capture that footage? I think that I have to buy some new equipment but I have no idea if it worths or not or what equipment do I need. I hope that my question is not so silly and I'll get some answers. Best regards, Papaioannou Ilias

September 9th, 2010, 01:39 PM	#5
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	AJA has a KIO as well that is a portable solution. You can also use a AJA Kona, Matrox MX02 or MX02 mini, as well as a few other studio solutions like Black Magic. These require a computer as well. The NanoFlash is excellent even if it is only 8bit, there is a lot of discussion about this. But for keying etc the NanoFlash works very well, I have never seen any banding even after heavy grading. I usually record at 100mb/sec a sweet spot for long gop. You can also record i frame up to 280mb/s. I would definitely check out the NF. Convergent Design > Home __________________ Olof Ekbergh • olof@WestsideAV.com Westside A V Studios • http://www.WestsideAVstore.com/

September 9th, 2010, 06:34 PM	#9
Kevin Spahr Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Carlisle, PA Posts: 451	If you're not out and about... When doing green screen or other studio shooting I use my MacPro with a Blackmagic Extreme card and capture using the ProRes 422 HQ codec. You will need at least a pair of good hard drives configured as a raid to maintain a suitable write speed. Can't move it around but it works!

September 9th, 2010, 01:41 AM	#2
Bo Skelmose Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 495	Hi To record the material external - look here Convergent Design nanoFlash Forum at DVinfo.net

September 9th, 2010, 01:22 PM	#4
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	And the Panasonic HPG20 P2 recorder can do 10 bit 422 to AVC Intra 100. I assume this will work from the EX3 - Sony and Panasonic mating - who would have thought it?! Steve

September 9th, 2010, 02:25 PM	#7
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	If you need 10bit 422 I would recommend the Matrox MXO2 LE. This assumes you have a laptop and you could work in a tethered environment. You would have to get the LE version of the MXO2 as the less expensive units do not have HD-SDI injest ports. Anything bigger than the LE and you will have difficulty running it off 12V batteries. I looked long and hard at the KiPro before getting the nanoFlash (which records in 422 8 bit) but the feature set was far from complete on its initial release, it gets really hot, it uses proprietary hard drive modules rather than solid state (it does have SxS slots but their use is/was limited). There are a lot of compelling things about the KiPro particularly with it's cross conversion/input-output capabilities, the VTR type controls on the box, the ability to remotely operate the KiPro from an iPhone/iPod but the practical realities set in and nanoFlash came out on top for the majority of the work I would be doing. The MXO2 LE on the other hand offers a lot of the same good aspects as the KiPro but with a bit more baggage (i.e., the laptop) and you can use it to properly calibrate a computer monitor with an HDMI input to be a "TV" reference monitor back in your editing suite. Many of us who have bought outboard recorders within the past year or so have gone through a similar redux. Ultimately, I would say, what do you need to do with the external recorder. It would be ideal to get 10 bit material but the reality is there are a bunch of compromises to get there right now including cost. The nanoFlash opens you up to a whole new market tier for selling material and really it should be about making money and how well the piece of gear makes you function better on set (or on a shoot) not just bragging rights about what specs your gear has. One other HUGE plus for the nanoFlash is it weighs LESS than a pound. I think 8 ounces. Both important for handheld work, people operating Steadicam or those with a tripod head that is near maxed out. The KiPro is not light once you kit it out with the rails and brackets.

September 9th, 2010, 04:04 PM	#8
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	The Panasonic HPG20 doesn't even get discussed then? Steve

September 9th, 2010, 09:14 PM	#10
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	Good point Kevin. You can do that with a Kona card as well. The Kona LHi is the one I would consider as it offers the most flexibility and has HDMI ports. The Matrox MXO2 LE though offers both solutions for a portable and studio setup.

September 10th, 2010, 01:43 AM	#11
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	HPG20? Could someone at least explain why it wouldn't be a good choice in case I'm missing something? Media too expensive? Too large (2lbs vs 1lb for Nanoflash). Steve

September 10th, 2010, 09:18 AM	#13
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Cool, thanks Perrone, just wanted someone to actually acknowledge that it existed! It does give 10 bit though. Worth an extra £1000 and 1lb in weight? To some maybe, but I think I'd chose the Nanoflash too. Steve

September 10th, 2010, 10:58 AM	#15
Kevin Spahr Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Carlisle, PA Posts: 451	The Blackmagic Extreme 3 DOES have HDMI in and out. Along with dual link SDI good for 2K at 10 bit 4.4.4 not to mention full support for ALL the old SD connections. The latest version card handles 3D and has HDMI 1.4 which also supports 3D. The best part is that is still under $1000. I feel it is one of those product like the HDCAM EX where price and performance creates a great value!