Anyone using NeoScene for an intermediate

[John Peterson]

Is anyone using Cineform NeoScene to create digital intermediate files for their EX cameras?

If so, how do you like it compared to other DI.

Cineform Neoscene

Thanks,

John

[Markus Klatt]

I've bought it a while ago and used it as codec within the "Microsoft AVI" container out of Premiere Pro CS4. I have filigree low light footage most times and for this it modifies the image to much, for my taste. I do not remember exactly, but it softend the image - so I stopped using it, throwing the money away.
I really would like to use some codec like this because of the resulting file size but use free Lagarith losless codec since then with success.

[Robert Young]

I've done all of my HD editing with Cineform for several years.
I think it's brilliant.
Image fidelity is terrific, it is near lossless- you can tweak, filter, and otherwise bang up the codec in post, and it holds up very well, all the way thru transcode to final delivery format.
I currently use Neo 4K v5 with Premiere CS5.
CF is widely used at many levels of the industry, including Hollywood feature film work (2D and 3D), provides excellent support, and has a very active forum on DVinfo.net:
CineForm Software Showcase Forum at DVinfo.net

[Markus Klatt]

But he was and I am talking about the very cheap version NeoScene. I doubt the codec has the same quality like Neo 4K.
I am really interested what others think. Is it comparable, is it the same?!

[Robert Young]

The codec is the same.
The difference is in the bit depth.
I believe that NeoScene is 8 bit, the higher versions are 10 bit and 12 bit.
I have used the 8 bit versions extensively in past times, they are quite good.

[Pete Bauer]

Cineform have one-upped themselves. Even NeoScene is 10 bit and interpolates chroma to 4:2:2. There are a lot of great features in the more expensive Cineform products, too. Browse and choose what's worth the additional cost to you:

Cineform Product Grid

FWIW, before I get accused of being a fanboy, I'm not using Cineform at all at present. I do have a license for ProspectHD for which I haven't yet taken the free upgrade to Neo4K, although if reports are good regarding relative bug-freedom and stability with the next official release of 4K, I'll probably add it to my workflow (not doing complex projects right now and pretty happy with CS5 as it is...again, simple projects).

[Robert Young]

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

Cineform have one-upped themselves. Even NeoScene is 10 bit and interpolates chroma to 4:2:2. There are a lot of great features in the more expensive Cineform products, too.

Thanks for the update Pete.
If NeoScene is 10 bit 4:2:2 now, it's a bargain indeed.

[Perrone Ford]

You can get to 10 bit 4:2:2 in a number of ways. I do it with Avid's DNxHD.

Cineform's benefit is that it makes a slightly smaller file of equal quality. DNxHD's benefit is that's its free, it's a SMPTE standard (VC-3), and it's non-proprietary.

Cineform is certainly a viable solution. It's underlying Jpeg2000 codec is my personal favorite, and I have two other implementation of it.

[Robert Young]

Cineform also offers a lot more in the package than just the codec.
Most recent super useful item is the First Light color correction/grading software- all done non destructively with metadata, applied instantly to the clip in RT, no rendering, etc.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

You can get to 10 bit 4:2:2 in a number of ways. I do it with Avid's DNxHD.

Cineform's benefit is that it makes a slightly smaller file of equal quality. DNxHD's benefit is that's its free, it's a SMPTE standard (VC-3), and it's non-proprietary.

Cineform is certainly a viable solution. It's underlying Jpeg2000 codec is my personal favorite, and I have two other implementation of it.

Hi Perrone,

I have downloaded the Avid DNxHD package, and the contained codex are available in Vegas now - but NONE s working - except for the one called "Avid 1:1x" (which is almost uncompressed, I reckon, but only 24bpp). And I'm getting "Medialooks" water-marked clips - and it's supposed to be a free codec!

I realize Avid codex are not "intended" for Vegas, but I got interested in a possibility of editing (especially, grading and CC-ing) my nanoFlash files in 10 bits (instead of 8) - and while the Neo HD trial works like a charm, the free Avid option you mention - doesn't.


What am I doing wrong? Or is it some sort of a Quicktime problem my Vegas installation is having?

Piotr

Edit: OK, I played a little more with the Avid codec, and here's what I found (all in Vegas Pro 9.0e):

- the DNxHD codec can be made to work; it's just that the "Configure" window is corrupt and displays in any but a visible place with 2 monitors active, but only one actually turned on :). After finding the window, I was able to select the correct settings - and I've got a 185 Mbps, 4:2:2, 10bit clip, ready for hardcore editing!

- as to the watermark, it's quite smart actually: when you generate a .mov intermediate inside Vegas (I suppose it's the same with any other non-Avid NLE), and play it back outside (e.g. using WMP), it DOES have the "Medialooks" logo in the upper-left corner (it's not visible inside the NLE, though).

However, when - after all the edits and tweaks to it - you render it out to some final delivery format (in the case of Vegas, the MainConcept MPEG-2, for instance), the logo is GONE!

Meaning: the AVID DNxHD codec works fine as NLE-agnostic, 10 bit intermediate, and is indeed free for final delivery.

[Steve Nelson]

I had the same problem with the DNxHD codec configuration window in Adobe Media Encoder. The window is undersized and you can't change it. As a result the "OK" button hovers over the Alpha selections and prevents you from being able to select an option there. You can barely see the size and frame rate selection window although you can get that to pop open. However, probably due to the inability to select "None" for Alpha you get a very dark render that look underexposed. After several attempts at different variations I gave up on it. That being said, I tried the new Matrox codec and it works very well and is very straightforward allowing for 8 or 10-bit renders.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Yeah, if anyone from Avid is reading this forum - please guys, repair the Configure window and let us know a new package is available for download!

As to my "watermark logo problem" - it only shows up in WMP, so I think it's some codec for playing mov files that I installed who knows when and how, a long time ago - sorry for confusion...

:)

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Steve Nelson

However, probably due to the inability to select "None" for Alpha you get a very dark render that look underexposed. After several attempts at different variations I gave up on it. That being said, I tried the new Matrox codec and it works very well and is very straightforward allowing for 8 or 10-bit renders.

The alpha channel has nothing to do with why you are seeing a gamma shift in your video. That's something else. I encode to DNxHD from Vegas, Mpeg Streamclip, Avid, and Sorensen Squeeze without getting that shift you're talking about.

But as you said, the Matrox codecs are very nice and work very well. Sadly, they can only do 10bit in the Uncompressed option which isn't really helpful for a lot of people.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Yeah, if anyone from Avid is reading this forum - please guys, repair the Configure window and let us know a new package is available for download!

Works fine if you actually have Avid installed.. :)

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

Works fine if you actually have Avid installed.. :)

I'd think it does - but the LE codec package is intended to all those good folks out there who - like me - do not use Avid, isn't it?

While we're at it - Perrone, as an Avid user, you're best suited to let Avid know of this bug :)

Thanks.