ex1 vs canon xf300 at DVinfo.net

Richard Kane · May 27th, 2010, 11:23 AM

Hi,
I am a serious hobbiest looking for a new camera
I have a Canon xha1 that has been nice but I am ready to upgrade
to a tapeless system. I shoot mainly action video's of Dogs Herding AGility etc.
Also do some short film.
1) is this tapeless system easy to work with in FCP
2) How does the auto focus and stability compare to Canons products?
3) Do any of you guys use SD cards with an adapter and are they reliable?
Which cameras do a better "film look"
Thanks!!!
Love to hear your opinions!

Steve Phillipps · May 27th, 2010, 11:37 AM

Tapeless workflow works great from all of these cameras with FCP and many others.
Only major pain is having to archive everything to hard drives, data tape, DVDs or whatever before wiping the cards (your ORIGINAL master don't forget!) and allowing you to re-use them.
On point 2, not trying to be funny, but if you are a "serious" hobbyist I'd hope that AF performance would be irrelevant as you should be thinking about manual focus anyway.
As for film-look my guess is that they'd probably do about the same in terms of colour/dynamic range etc., but the EX1 would have a slight edge if you wanted shallow depth of field (although this is quite minor as the depth of field will be the same if you shoot the EX at f4 and the Canon at f2.8 for instance, it's only a 1 stop difference).
Steve

Richard Kane · May 27th, 2010, 04:57 PM

most my experience is shooting action
I shoot a lot of still with a eos mark Iv curious
have never tried manual focus with action shots with video
isn't it very hard to focus on a dog jumping in the Air running across the
beach trying to catch a frisbee using a short depth of field

Steve Phillipps · May 28th, 2010, 03:26 AM

It is hard but then it's hard for AF too. There is a good reason why professional broadcast and film cameras do not have any AF lenses.
Steve

Matt Davis · May 28th, 2010, 10:38 AM

and why film lenses like Cook and Zeiss have a 'long throw' (lots of twist between close up and infinity) for precise focus stops, and micromotor-driven AF lenses have a very short throw.

All in all, a very good advertisment for a Follow Focus assembly, which should gear-down the throw and provide you with marks for certain focus positions. Unless of course you use a Nikon lens with no end stop at infinity...

Steve Kalle · May 28th, 2010, 10:44 AM

About the AF - I shot 2 soccer games a few weeks ago with 2 EX1s and used AF on both. I haven't edited both games yet but what I have seen is very good. I started a thread recently "How to Shoot Sports WITHOUT Autofocus", and there are several great comments from NFL and NASCAR cameramen. They said the key is having the aperture as close to F8 as possible (any greater and diffraction starts softening the image).

Since you are in Chicago, you should go to Abel Cine Tech in Oak Brook and talk to Gregger. This is where I get everything, and he has an EX1r on the floor.

About "Film Look" - I definitely think the EX1 has the advantage with its Picture Profile adjustments. Check out xdcam-user.com and Alister Chapmen - he provides great insight into the EX1/3 PP settings.

Steve Phillipps · May 29th, 2010, 12:34 AM

Surely we can't judge the Canon on picture profiles/film look yet, is it even available yet?
Steve

Bruce Rawlings · May 29th, 2010, 01:51 AM

I would not judge any camera by its Picture Profiles as all is possible in post.

Steve Phillipps · May 29th, 2010, 03:02 AM

Bruce, that's not entirely true. Part of the role of picture profiles can be maximising dynamic range, in the Varicam for instance, as well as many others, you can get an extra 2 stops or so of useable range with the right settings. In post you can only work with material that is there in the first place, so once a highlight is blown, it's gone.
Steve

Bruce Rawlings · May 29th, 2010, 07:46 AM

Steve I agree with you, I was too sweeping in my statement. I was really thinking of those who try to achieve quite heavy looks in camera. I have my EX1 and HDCAM set up to retain highlights after that a colourist works the magic to makes the pictures look really good.

Richard Kane · May 29th, 2010, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kalle

About the AF - I shot 2 soccer games a few weeks ago with 2 EX1s and used AF on both. I haven't edited both games yet but what I have seen is very good. I started a thread recently "How to Shoot Sports WITHOUT Autofocus", and there are several great comments from NFL and NASCAR cameramen. They said the key is having the aperture as close to F8 as possible (any greater and diffraction starts softening the image).

Since you are in Chicago, you should go to Abel Cine Tech in Oak Brook and talk to Gregger. This is where I get everything, and he has an EX1r on the floor.

About "Film Look" - I definitely think the EX1 has the advantage with its Picture Profile adjustments. Check out xdcam-user.com and Alister Chapmen - he provides great insight into the EX1/3 PP settings.

Thanks!!!!

May 27th, 2010, 11:23 AM	#1
Richard Kane Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: chicago, il Posts: 65	ex1 vs canon xf300 Hi, I am a serious hobbiest looking for a new camera I have a Canon xha1 that has been nice but I am ready to upgrade to a tapeless system. I shoot mainly action video's of Dogs Herding AGility etc. Also do some short film. 1) is this tapeless system easy to work with in FCP 2) How does the auto focus and stability compare to Canons products? 3) Do any of you guys use SD cards with an adapter and are they reliable? Which cameras do a better "film look" Thanks!!! Love to hear your opinions!

May 28th, 2010, 10:38 AM	#5
Matt Davis Trustee Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 1,562	and why film lenses like Cook and Zeiss have a 'long throw' (lots of twist between close up and infinity) for precise focus stops, and micromotor-driven AF lenses have a very short throw. All in all, a very good advertisment for a Follow Focus assembly, which should gear-down the throw and provide you with marks for certain focus positions. Unless of course you use a Nikon lens with no end stop at infinity... __________________ Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6

May 29th, 2010, 01:51 AM	#8
Bruce Rawlings Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK Posts: 410	I would not judge any camera by its Picture Profiles as all is possible in post. Last edited by Bruce Rawlings; May 29th, 2010 at 01:51 AM. Reason: Spolling

May 27th, 2010, 11:37 AM	#2
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Tapeless workflow works great from all of these cameras with FCP and many others. Only major pain is having to archive everything to hard drives, data tape, DVDs or whatever before wiping the cards (your ORIGINAL master don't forget!) and allowing you to re-use them. On point 2, not trying to be funny, but if you are a "serious" hobbyist I'd hope that AF performance would be irrelevant as you should be thinking about manual focus anyway. As for film-look my guess is that they'd probably do about the same in terms of colour/dynamic range etc., but the EX1 would have a slight edge if you wanted shallow depth of field (although this is quite minor as the depth of field will be the same if you shoot the EX at f4 and the Canon at f2.8 for instance, it's only a 1 stop difference). Steve

May 27th, 2010, 04:57 PM	#3
Richard Kane Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: chicago, il Posts: 65	most my experience is shooting action I shoot a lot of still with a eos mark Iv curious have never tried manual focus with action shots with video isn't it very hard to focus on a dog jumping in the Air running across the beach trying to catch a frisbee using a short depth of field

May 28th, 2010, 03:26 AM	#4
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	It is hard but then it's hard for AF too. There is a good reason why professional broadcast and film cameras do not have any AF lenses. Steve

May 28th, 2010, 10:44 AM	#6
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	About the AF - I shot 2 soccer games a few weeks ago with 2 EX1s and used AF on both. I haven't edited both games yet but what I have seen is very good. I started a thread recently "How to Shoot Sports WITHOUT Autofocus", and there are several great comments from NFL and NASCAR cameramen. They said the key is having the aperture as close to F8 as possible (any greater and diffraction starts softening the image). Since you are in Chicago, you should go to Abel Cine Tech in Oak Brook and talk to Gregger. This is where I get everything, and he has an EX1r on the floor. About "Film Look" - I definitely think the EX1 has the advantage with its Picture Profile adjustments. Check out xdcam-user.com and Alister Chapmen - he provides great insight into the EX1/3 PP settings.

May 29th, 2010, 12:34 AM	#7
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Surely we can't judge the Canon on picture profiles/film look yet, is it even available yet? Steve

May 29th, 2010, 03:02 AM	#9
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Bruce, that's not entirely true. Part of the role of picture profiles can be maximising dynamic range, in the Varicam for instance, as well as many others, you can get an extra 2 stops or so of useable range with the right settings. In post you can only work with material that is there in the first place, so once a highlight is blown, it's gone. Steve

May 29th, 2010, 07:46 AM	#10
Bruce Rawlings Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK Posts: 410	Steve I agree with you, I was too sweeping in my statement. I was really thinking of those who try to achieve quite heavy looks in camera. I have my EX1 and HDCAM set up to retain highlights after that a colourist works the magic to makes the pictures look really good.