EX1 - 720 60p (Overcranked) - Asia (50Hz)

Jonathan Bland · May 5th, 2010, 03:42 AM

Hello Folks,

I wondering if anyone has a solution?

From time to time I'm shooting 720 60P (overcranked) NTSC here in Asia at night and am getting flicker.

I use the ECS and dial it above 100 to knock it back. But when I do this I lose light sensitivity.

Does anyone have a work around solution that will keep the light sensitivity up?

Does anyone have a ECS "magic number" that they use and trust so as to compare?

I'm still running with the original firmware.... has there been improvements in this specific 'flicker area' with an update?

Big thanks :)

Hirata Tomoki · May 7th, 2010, 07:35 PM

Which Asia Country ?

Asia country aslo has 50 and 60 Hz,
There a both 60 Hz and 50 Hz in Japan

Jonathan Bland · May 7th, 2010, 08:18 PM

My title 'Subject' heading says 50Hz so that still means...... 50Hz.

Anyway there is no other way.

Alister Chapman · May 8th, 2010, 01:09 AM

No other way, as you must use a shutter that is either a multiple or equal fraction (??) of the mains frequency, so for 50Hz you need 25fps (1/25th), 50fps(1/50th), 100th, 200th etc.

You could try the flicker reduce function in the camera menu, but this has unpredictable results and is known to cause flicker in some circumstances.

Jonathan Bland · May 9th, 2010, 04:51 AM

Thanks for chiming in Alister.

So what happens if I told you that I'm normally shooting 24P NTSC?

Than doesn't exactly fit with the multiple or equal fraction........ and maybe that's why the flicker has been such a nuisance!

Big thanks :)

Alister Chapman · May 9th, 2010, 10:15 AM

for 24P use a 1/50th shutter, that's pretty close to the traditional 180 degree shutter at 1/24

Walter Brokx · May 9th, 2010, 10:53 AM

When overcranking at 60p try a shutter of 1/100th.
You loose some light, but the 'timing' of the shutter should be 'in sync' with the 50Hz flicker of the light, and thus reducing flicker.
(1/60th vs. 50 Hz is not 'in harmony' and this causes the flicker)

Joachim Hoge · May 9th, 2010, 11:23 AM

Or just shoot 50 frames instead of 60, and problem is solved. Shutter should be 25, 50, 100 etc.
This is what I do indoors in Europe under fluorescent lights to avoid flicker

Jonathan Bland · May 9th, 2010, 01:08 PM

Ok.... so check this out....

I'm shooting a feature doc here.
I started at 30P then moved to 24P and am now going to move towards 25P (PAL) because of the constant flicker problems in the streets.

Can anyone comment on the nightmare this may cause when going to post???

Big thanks :)

Oliver Neubert · May 9th, 2010, 01:48 PM

you will have to decide on what fps you want to use and conform all the footage to this.
I don't know about other NLEs but with final cut you need to stay in the same framerate. Cinematools should do the job. I rarely have to use it but remember the first time I did. you hit conform and wait... nothing happens. I assumed it was not working properly, but it had already done the job - so fast that I thought nothing had happened.

If you are recording the sound externally you must lay your sound on the footage before you conform.
I would expect the different framerates to look different but unless you cut it back to back with the intention of a uniform scene, I think you should be fine.

Jonathan Bland · May 9th, 2010, 09:03 PM

Thanks Oliver.

I've never used Cinematools..... so I can't say.

Anyone else want to add to or confirm this info?

May 5th, 2010, 03:42 AM	#1
Jonathan Bland Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Way Far Away Posts: 230	EX1 - 720 60p (Overcranked) - Asia (50Hz) - Night Flicker Issues Hello Folks, I wondering if anyone has a solution? From time to time I'm shooting 720 60P (overcranked) NTSC here in Asia at night and am getting flicker. I use the ECS and dial it above 100 to knock it back. But when I do this I lose light sensitivity. Does anyone have a work around solution that will keep the light sensitivity up? Does anyone have a ECS "magic number" that they use and trust so as to compare? I'm still running with the original firmware.... has there been improvements in this specific 'flicker area' with an update? Big thanks :)

May 8th, 2010, 01:09 AM	#4
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	No other way, as you must use a shutter that is either a multiple or equal fraction (??) of the mains frequency, so for 50Hz you need 25fps (1/25th), 50fps(1/50th), 100th, 200th etc. You could try the flicker reduce function in the camera menu, but this has unpredictable results and is known to cause flicker in some circumstances. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

May 9th, 2010, 10:15 AM	#6
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	for 24P use a 1/50th shutter, that's pretty close to the traditional 180 degree shutter at 1/24 __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

May 9th, 2010, 10:53 AM	#7
Walter Brokx Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Maassluis, The Netherlands Posts: 294	When overcranking at 60p try a shutter of 1/100th. You loose some light, but the 'timing' of the shutter should be 'in sync' with the 50Hz flicker of the light, and thus reducing flicker. (1/60th vs. 50 Hz is not 'in harmony' and this causes the flicker) __________________ Brainstormnavigator searching for the hole in the sky..... Audiovisual Designer (NL) - http://www.brokxmedia.nl

May 7th, 2010, 07:35 PM	#2
Hirata Tomoki New Boot Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Japan Posts: 24	Which Asia Country ? Asia country aslo has 50 and 60 Hz, There a both 60 Hz and 50 Hz in Japan

May 7th, 2010, 08:18 PM	#3
Jonathan Bland Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Way Far Away Posts: 230	My title 'Subject' heading says 50Hz so that still means...... 50Hz. Anyway there is no other way.

May 9th, 2010, 04:51 AM	#5
Jonathan Bland Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Way Far Away Posts: 230	Thanks for chiming in Alister. So what happens if I told you that I'm normally shooting 24P NTSC? Than doesn't exactly fit with the multiple or equal fraction........ and maybe that's why the flicker has been such a nuisance! Big thanks :)

May 9th, 2010, 11:23 AM	#8
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	Or just shoot 50 frames instead of 60, and problem is solved. Shutter should be 25, 50, 100 etc. This is what I do indoors in Europe under fluorescent lights to avoid flicker

May 9th, 2010, 01:08 PM	#9
Jonathan Bland Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Way Far Away Posts: 230	Ok.... so check this out.... I'm shooting a feature doc here. I started at 30P then moved to 24P and am now going to move towards 25P (PAL) because of the constant flicker problems in the streets. Can anyone comment on the nightmare this may cause when going to post??? Big thanks :)

May 9th, 2010, 01:48 PM	#10
Oliver Neubert Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zurich, Switzerland Posts: 101	you will have to decide on what fps you want to use and conform all the footage to this. I don't know about other NLEs but with final cut you need to stay in the same framerate. Cinematools should do the job. I rarely have to use it but remember the first time I did. you hit conform and wait... nothing happens. I assumed it was not working properly, but it had already done the job - so fast that I thought nothing had happened. If you are recording the sound externally you must lay your sound on the footage before you conform. I would expect the different framerates to look different but unless you cut it back to back with the intention of a uniform scene, I think you should be fine.

May 9th, 2010, 09:03 PM	#11
Jonathan Bland Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Way Far Away Posts: 230	Thanks Oliver. I've never used Cinematools..... so I can't say. Anyone else want to add to or confirm this info?