quick SD cards questions (buying my Ex1r Monday)

[Federico Perale]

hi there
just some quick questions:

which SD card do you advice buying (make/class) and if possible where (UK) for a good price?
do i really need class 10 or will class 6 work also with over-cranking?
which SD adaptor should I buy? is the Sony one more reliable/compatible?

[Colin Rowe]

Transcend class 6 work fine. Try the MxM adaptor coupled with ATP Promax card, available here Search - Proactive apparently very good performance, with the latest firmware. Going to try one myself.

[Federico Perale]

thanks...but in the description of the adaptor it says: "MxM expresscard/34 in combination with the most accepted SDHC memory cards will not over crank above 720p/45fps successfully (tested with the ATP ProMax Class 6, RAW SDHC 16GB Class 6 and Sandisk). You may be able to achieve a higher rate, but only for short periods (10s - 3s long clips) as it is limited to Sony’s EX1/EX3 implementation of USB interface."
strange they didn't try with a class 10....i wonder...
will a Sony adaptor together with a class 10 card allow to over crank?

[Bruce Rawlings]

The general feeling seems to be that SDHC is ok for normal recording but SxS is safest for over cranking. Although I think the new software may allow overcranking ATP cards. Even Sony do not suggest that their Mead adapter with a card works with overcranking. I think there is a thread that will cover this subject.

[Marcus Durham]

I have a non firmware upgraded EX1. I shoot only onto ATP Pro Max cards because they seem to be a cut above the standard consumer cards.

With the new firmware card I believe the choice of card is less critical. However I'm personally happier paying a little more for a premium product in the same way I always used to use Sony DVCAM stock and not standard DV.

Officially you can't overcrank onto SD cards. However I believe many people with the new firmware report its just fine. Indeed I've accidentally shot overcrank footage onto SDHC without issue.

SanDisk have new fast cards out that are reported to be reliable. However until I do the firmware upgrade I'll be sticking with the ATP/MxM combination as it hasn't let me down in 7 months. No lost clips, no media restores. The closest I've come to drama is accidentally putting a blank combo into the Mac and thinking I'd lost all my clips. All I'd done is mixed up 2 cards in my bag (I keep formatted cards and used cards seperate but had cocked up).


My top tips for SDHC are:

Buy the lockable MxM's. Insert the SDHC and then never take it out of the adaptor. Basically handle the card from then on like a SxS. (MxM will sell you a USB adaptor for a few dollars if you don't have an Expresscard slot).

Buy more cards/adaptors than you think you'll need. So you can hang on to the media for a few days before you need to reuse it.

Do not format the cards on location. Get them ready before you leave the office. It just takes a cock up with the different slots and you've erased all your footage.




Tips 2 and 3 also apply to SxS before the SDHC denouncers jump on me.

[Colin Rowe]

Originally Posted by Federico Perale

thanks...but in the description of the adaptor it says: "MxM expresscard/34 in combination with the most accepted SDHC memory cards will not over crank above 720p/45fps successfully (tested with the ATP ProMax Class 6, RAW SDHC 16GB Class 6 and Sandisk). You may be able to achieve a higher rate, but only for short periods (10s - 3s long clips) as it is limited to Sony’s EX1/EX3 implementation of USB interface."
strange they didn't try with a class 10....i wonder...
will a Sony adaptor together with a class 10 card allow to over crank?

Federico, did you get to the bottom line.

Quote: This bundle includes the high performance ATP ProMax 16GB SDHC card, which allows the full range of over and under cranking from 0 to 60 on the PMW-EX1R and up to 48 f/s on the PMW-EX1/EX3 camcorders. This function was previously only available of the Sony SxS cards.

Probably not set in stone, but at the price worth a try.

Here is the USB adaptor mentioned by Marcus.http://www.proav.co.uk/Blank-Media-T...101_sc634.aspx
And even cheaper here. http://www.allmemorycards.co.uk/acat...ml#aMXM_2d1002

[Federico Perale]

for some reasons all these shops sell the MXM or MXr adaptors bundled with 16GB cards...

will they work well with 32GB cards too?

would you go rather for MXM or MXr?

judging by this guy's research (http://www.media2u.co.uk/blog/?tag=mxm) the MXM seem to work better

[Marcus Durham]

Originally Posted by Federico Perale

for some reasons all these shops sell the MXM or MXr adaptors bundled with 16GB cards...

will they work well with 32GB cards too?

would you go rather for MXM or MXr?

judging by this guy's research (MxM | Media2u Video Production Blog) the MXM seem to work better

That's my article and certainly for the EX1 with the older firmware (the article was written a few months ago) the MxM and ATP combo is the way to go.

If I was buying more cards today I'd be buying MxM (I also own MxR's). If you buy from MxM direct, they will also sell you ATP cards both 16gb and 32gb. They also have a range of adaptors. Sadly I cannot post the URL here due to forum rules. However if you read my article you'll find a link.

I personally prefer 16gb cards because you have less eggs in one basket. Regardless of reliability of media, if you lose a card for whatever reason, you've only lost an hour of footage, not two hours. That said that wouldn't preclude me from buying a 32gb card if I needed some long recording times.

[Federico Perale]

thanks Marcus--- I didn't realise it was your article : )

but are ATP card considered better? also that shop sells the bundle with Class 6 ATP cards, whereas I thought that being over cranking already difficult, one would have at least to use class 10?

maybe I am missing something...

[Marcus Durham]

The card class system can be a little hit and miss. For example certain types of Sandisk Class 4 cards were actually faster than some Class 6 cards.

I'd go with whatever MxM recommend because they test the cards extensively. I note they have added a new page to their website which discusses the cards they have tested:

MxM Express Tested Working Media

(the mods may remove that URL but I'd argue that it contains vital information of tested SDHC cards for EX owners)

Some of the Sandisk Class 10 cards look good bets for overcranking but for everyday workhorse cards, the ATP cards may be better. You get what you pay for and speed isn't everything. The ATP's are extremely consistent and reliable even if they aren't the fastest.

[Charles Newcomb]

After I did the update on my EX3 I tested my Hoodman adapters w/16GB cards. They all overcranked at 720p 30 to 60 all the way through. Well, okay... I stopped them when there was still 1 minute remaining. I don't use overcrank often. I just wanted to see if they'd do it, and they did.

Still, if it was something important I'd go to my SXS cards... just in case.

[Marcus Durham]

Originally Posted by Charles Newcomb

After I did the update on my EX3 I tested my Hoodman adapters w/16GB cards. They all overcranked at 720p 30 to 60 all the way through. Well, okay... I stopped them when there was still 1 minute remaining. I don't use overcrank often. I just wanted to see if they'd do it, and they did.

Still, if it was something important I'd go to my SXS cards... just in case.

Depends on the test you did. Setting a camera to overcrank and then pointing it at a still scene isn't a test as the camera uses a VBR codec. It'll just sit there ticking over. If you can stress the codec by pointing it at something that is constantly changing that is a much better test.

Of course in the real world you will probably never really "stress" the codec so the card should be fine. But be warned that it isn't black and white and just because it works for a scene of people ice skating in a snow scene (as per my accidentally using overcrank as detailed above) doesn't mean it would work at some fast moving event with lots of background. I suspect all the white of the snow and the ice meant the bitrate was kept low in my case!

[Colin Rowe]

I often wonder why there is so much paranoia over using SDHC cards with the EX. If your not happy using them, simply buy a couple of the new SxS1 cards, about £400 for 32 gb. Yes more expensive, but if it gives the individual peace of mind, its got to be worth it. Personally, I am more than happy, and comfortable, using MxM with SDHC. If we all worry about media failure, we would never get anything done.
BTW, all media, can, and probably will fail at some time or another.

[Federico Campanale]

I use the MxR adaptors with 2 sandisk cards (16 & 32 Gb) of cat 2. It goes completely fine. I did several 50 & 60 fps at 25fps and nothing ever went wrong. When usinf the adaptors, it takes a bit more time after pressing stop than with the SxS. And of course, when downloading your clips in XDCAM Trabsfer, it's also slower...

But for the rest, it's very fine. which doesn't say i'd prefer to have 2000€ to buy 4 32BG SxS-1 of course... but for now, priority s elsewhere.. :-)