EX & Premiere CS4

Ed Kukla · February 27th, 2010, 01:04 PM

The reason I need to consider the mxf is that PPro will not display the clip names from footage in the PP clip bin. When I have 50 clips, I only see 50 file names and it becomes a guessing game as to what is on a clip. When I use mxf for nle in the download, I can name every clip. Much easier to edit that way.

Now I have an mxf file on the hard drive. Why is this a bad thing? If it has the same picture quality as any other form of storage, what is the difference?

Vincent Oliver · February 27th, 2010, 03:10 PM

No one has said the MXF file is a bad thing. What Doug was saying is that you should always keep the original file in tact - even if it is just for a backup. Who knows, in the future Sony may bring out some software that will only see the native EX files. Best to be safe.

Ed Kukla · February 27th, 2010, 05:52 PM

To significantly improve editing with PP, I need mxf.

At best, what I could do is make one copy to my primary edit HD in mxf and a second backup to secondary HD in native EX

I'd like to hear of more reasons other than maybe sometime in the future I might need something for Sony...

Doug Jensen · February 27th, 2010, 06:04 PM

In my workflow for FCP, I use Clip Browser to make copies onto two different hard drives of every BPAV folder. Those are put away offline from the rest of my NLE.

Then I use XDCAM Transfer to import just the clips and sub clips that I need for my edit. The software automatically re-wraps those clipse as MOV files during the import.

At the end of my edit, I use FCP's Media Manager function to backup all of my project files including the MOV files that made it into the final edit.

Its simple.
It's not rocket science.

Ed Kukla · February 27th, 2010, 06:11 PM

So you are using 3 hard drives, not 2? You never touch the first 2 archive drives and only use a 3rd drive for loading your clips?

Doug Jensen · February 27th, 2010, 06:28 PM

Actually, five.

Two cheap USB hard drives that are only used for archives before anything else is done.

One dual link eSata drive for actual editing the MOV files.

When the project is done, all the project files (video, music, graphics, animations, etc) are transferred to two more cheap USB drives for for final archiving. Then the eSata drive is erased to make room for more projects. At any given time there may be 3 - 6 projects on the eSata drive.

At the end, I have two backups of all my raw footage, and two backups of my finished project. That is the the level of risk that I am willing to accept.

Soon I will be changing my workflow to use XDCAM optical discs instead of USB drives for all my archives. At that time, I'll only make single backups of raw footage and the finished project. XDCAM discs are much more reliable that hard drives.

Vincent Oliver · February 28th, 2010, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kukla

So you are using 3 hard drives, not 2? You never touch the first 2 archive drives and only use a 3rd drive for loading your clips?

Ed, you have to consider how valuable your work is to you. At some stage in the future your hard drive will fail you, not maybe, but certainly fail. Backing up your files is just as important as shooting new material. Ideally you should have two copies and one working copy of all your important work.

You say

Quote:

"I'd like to hear of more reasons other than maybe sometime in the future I might need something for Sony..."

I don't have any other reason other than that I know of no reason why I shouldn't keep a master copy of my BAPV folder. I don't know what Sony or anyone else has in development and I don't want to be caught out with files that have been re-wrapped. The other reason is that MXF files don't show up as previews in Clip Browser, and with all it's faults Clip Browser is still a good application to preview clips.

As for hard drives,they are cheap enough now, certainly a lot cheaper than tapes. I too am looking into XDCAM optical discs.

Ed Kukla · February 28th, 2010, 06:27 AM

vincent

I do make 2 copies of everything, always have from the beginning.

You mention clip browser preview. that's nice, but have you used premiere pro? in the clip bin of premiere all you get are file names. try editing a project with 50 or 100 clips and all you can do is guess at which clip is which! that is the whole reason for this. it is a problem with premiere but i'm not switching platforms, I'm looking at a reasonable workaround.
thanks

Vincent Oliver · February 28th, 2010, 07:02 AM

Quote:

You mention clip browser preview. that's nice, but have you used premiere pro?

I would have thought that was obvious, I have used Premiere Pro from version 6 through to CS4 and CS?. I am aware that the EX previews don't show up in PP and that is why I said in a previous post that Clip Browser was a useful application to preview files. However, once you re-wrap them in MXF or MOV, then you can't see the preview only the name.

There is no need to switch platform, a Windows machine will do everything that a Mac will do and vice versa - they are both dumb number crunchers. Your skills as a film maker will make the difference not the computer.

Amendment: Only just noticed that you are using a Macbook, not that it makes any difference to the advice given. Maybe you should also try XDCAM Transfer

Doug Jensen · February 28th, 2010, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver

Maybe you should also try XDCAM Transfer

Don't bother trying XDCAM Transfer because it won't work unless the latest version of FCP is also installed. XDCAM Transfer does not stand alone.

As I said before, I've never used Premiere, or even seen it running, but why can't you use Adobe Bridge to preview your clips? Even though I edit with Final Cut Pro, I couldn't imagine getting any work done in a timely manner without having Adobe Bridge running at the same time. I don't know about Premiere, but with FCP, I can drag cligs straight from the Bridge window and onto my FCP timeline or bin.

You must have Bridge because it's free with other Adobe software. Anyone who has Photoshop has it. The only reason it might not work for you is if Bridge on my computer is getting codec settings from FCP like XDCAM Transfer does. I have no way of testing that because FCP is already on all my Macs.

Vincent Oliver · February 28th, 2010, 12:06 PM

Doug, I have seen you mention Adobe Bridge on another post, I have just tried it on CS4 and I can't see any previews for EX files straight from the BPAV folders. Maybe I am missing something.

Premiere will import EX files directly into a Premiere Bin, and better still it lists all the files within a single BPAV folder, just drag them straight onto the timeline. However, as Ed points out they only appear as a list of file numbers, without previews. So far I can only preview clips in Clip Browser. Maybe if I re-wrap the files then I will see a preview, but I prefer to keep the data as is until it's time to output an end product.

Steve Kalle · February 28th, 2010, 12:31 PM

I use Premiere CS4 and an EX1, and I just checked something: you can easily rename the native MP4 clips within Premiere's bin/Project window. Just right click and rename.

I just tested something else: in Clip Browser, I used "Batch Edit Clip Properties" and created a name in "Title 1". In Premiere's Media Browser, it still shows the original clip name, BUT once I import it into the project window, it shows the name I created.

Just an FYI, Premiere CS4 on Mac actually has fewer effects than the PC version.

Doug Jensen · February 28th, 2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver

Doug, I have seen you mention Adobe Bridge on another post, I have just tried it on CS4 and I can't see any previews for EX files straight from the BPAV folders. Maybe I am missing something..

Vincent, I mean that I can browse the MOV files in Adobe Bridge. My BPAV files are tucked away on other drives and I'll never see them again unless the MOV files are destroyed.

I can see now why Bridge wouldn't be of much help for editing with Premiere. Forget I ever
mentioned it. Oh well, that's just one more reason for everyone to move to FCP. :-)

Doug

Vincent Oliver · February 28th, 2010, 01:51 PM

Never mind Doug, tomorrow is the start of another week.

Would love to run Final Cut Pro, but my old Macs are passed their sell by date (pair of G3s) and I am not tempted to kit myself out with new computers just to run another interface (applications and OS). Although I do have a very old version of FCP installed on one of the Macs, but with 500mb of RAM installed and a 40gb hard drive I don't think I can do much with it.

Steve Kalle · February 28th, 2010, 02:27 PM

Vincent, in Premiere, you can preview the native XDCAM clips in the 'Source' window; either from Media Browser or Project/Bin. Plus, you can do what I said in my prior post about naming them.

February 27th, 2010, 03:10 PM	#17
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	No one has said the MXF file is a bad thing. What Doug was saying is that you should always keep the original file in tact - even if it is just for a backup. Who knows, in the future Sony may bring out some software that will only see the native EX files. Best to be safe. __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

February 27th, 2010, 06:04 PM	#19
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,450	In my workflow for FCP, I use Clip Browser to make copies onto two different hard drives of every BPAV folder. Those are put away offline from the rest of my NLE. Then I use XDCAM Transfer to import just the clips and sub clips that I need for my edit. The software automatically re-wraps those clipse as MOV files during the import. At the end of my edit, I use FCP's Media Manager function to backup all of my project files including the MOV files that made it into the final edit. Its simple. It's not rocket science. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

February 27th, 2010, 06:28 PM	#21
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,450	Actually, five. Two cheap USB hard drives that are only used for archives before anything else is done. One dual link eSata drive for actual editing the MOV files. When the project is done, all the project files (video, music, graphics, animations, etc) are transferred to two more cheap USB drives for for final archiving. Then the eSata drive is erased to make room for more projects. At any given time there may be 3 - 6 projects on the eSata drive. At the end, I have two backups of all my raw footage, and two backups of my finished project. That is the the level of risk that I am willing to accept. Soon I will be changing my workflow to use XDCAM optical discs instead of USB drives for all my archives. At that time, I'll only make single backups of raw footage and the finished project. XDCAM discs are much more reliable that hard drives. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

February 28th, 2010, 12:06 PM	#26
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	Doug, I have seen you mention Adobe Bridge on another post, I have just tried it on CS4 and I can't see any previews for EX files straight from the BPAV folders. Maybe I am missing something. Premiere will import EX files directly into a Premiere Bin, and better still it lists all the files within a single BPAV folder, just drag them straight onto the timeline. However, as Ed points out they only appear as a list of file numbers, without previews. So far I can only preview clips in Clip Browser. Maybe if I re-wrap the files then I will see a preview, but I prefer to keep the data as is until it's time to output an end product. __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

February 28th, 2010, 01:51 PM	#29
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	Never mind Doug, tomorrow is the start of another week. Would love to run Final Cut Pro, but my old Macs are passed their sell by date (pair of G3s) and I am not tempted to kit myself out with new computers just to run another interface (applications and OS). Although I do have a very old version of FCP installed on one of the Macs, but with 500mb of RAM installed and a 40gb hard drive I don't think I can do much with it. __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

February 27th, 2010, 01:04 PM	#16
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	The reason I need to consider the mxf is that PPro will not display the clip names from footage in the PP clip bin. When I have 50 clips, I only see 50 file names and it becomes a guessing game as to what is on a clip. When I use mxf for nle in the download, I can name every clip. Much easier to edit that way. Now I have an mxf file on the hard drive. Why is this a bad thing? If it has the same picture quality as any other form of storage, what is the difference?

February 27th, 2010, 05:52 PM	#18
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	To significantly improve editing with PP, I need mxf. At best, what I could do is make one copy to my primary edit HD in mxf and a second backup to secondary HD in native EX I'd like to hear of more reasons other than maybe sometime in the future I might need something for Sony...

February 27th, 2010, 06:11 PM	#20
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	So you are using 3 hard drives, not 2? You never touch the first 2 archive drives and only use a 3rd drive for loading your clips?

February 28th, 2010, 06:27 AM	#23
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	vincent I do make 2 copies of everything, always have from the beginning. You mention clip browser preview. that's nice, but have you used premiere pro? in the clip bin of premiere all you get are file names. try editing a project with 50 or 100 clips and all you can do is guess at which clip is which! that is the whole reason for this. it is a problem with premiere but i'm not switching platforms, I'm looking at a reasonable workaround. thanks

February 28th, 2010, 12:31 PM	#27
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	I use Premiere CS4 and an EX1, and I just checked something: you can easily rename the native MP4 clips within Premiere's bin/Project window. Just right click and rename. I just tested something else: in Clip Browser, I used "Batch Edit Clip Properties" and created a name in "Title 1". In Premiere's Media Browser, it still shows the original clip name, BUT once I import it into the project window, it shows the name I created. Just an FYI, Premiere CS4 on Mac actually has fewer effects than the PC version.

February 28th, 2010, 02:27 PM	#30
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Vincent, in Premiere, you can preview the native XDCAM clips in the 'Source' window; either from Media Browser or Project/Bin. Plus, you can do what I said in my prior post about naming them.