My first major screwup: deleted clips accidentally at DVinfo.net

Bob Kerner · February 20th, 2010, 07:41 PM

I'm not feeling good about the end result but hopefully someone can suggest a remedy.

I was using Sony Clip Browser to tag my clips and move them off the SxS card to an archive drive. There were a couple of crappy clips I did not want to move, so I selected them and deleted them from within Clip Browser. Due to an errant keystroke, I inadvertently selected all clips for deletion. They appear to be gone forever.

They do not appear in Clip Browser even if I remount the SxS card. Opening the BPAV folder on the card directly reveals nothing and putting the card back in the camera reveals "No Clips." I have NOT reformatted the card. The clips are not in my trash bin.

Where the hell are the clips trashed from within Clip Browser (one would think they'd be in the trash) and is there any way for me to recover them?

Marty Welk · February 20th, 2010, 10:19 PM

MOST of the deleting and formatting that is going on is just setting the clusters up for re-writing, therefore most of the time a deleted clip is still there till you overwrite it.
Just wanted to tell you , if you find the right software for running a recovery chances are good to accomplish a recovery.

ever delete a file off a Flash chip in windows? it dont go into the trash bin that i can recall, all the times i did it without thinking i dont ever remember it using the trashbin. course my version of XP is back a bit. mabey the idea was where would it GO? they had these small chips and if you made a bin ON THEM, people would just clean it almost immediataly anyways.

Lock It, so nothing tries to write using it, most good recovery software doesnt require writing to the chip to do the recovery, unless it is unformat or something.

Marty Welk · February 20th, 2010, 10:32 PM

here are some threads that cover that
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...-sxs-card.html
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/long-bla...sad-story.html
(some software that might do the trick)

Leonard Levy · February 21st, 2010, 01:21 AM

cancelled comment

Piotr Wozniacki · February 21st, 2010, 05:20 AM

You might try Recuva:

Recuva - Update

- but the probability of recovering all clips is low. I noticed that during delete operation from the ClipBrowser, the clusters get crossed among the many files (apart from mp4s, you're also deleting all the other files that EX write into CLPR folders).

As to not seeing your clips in the trash bin: you probably would find them there if you used OS tools to delete specific files; with ClipBrowser each delete gets rid of several associated files, and does it permanently (of course, it still doesn't physically wipe the sectors - but as I said, creates a mess of their logical structure). So, you will be lucky if you can recover 1-2 clips intact.

David Hart · February 21st, 2010, 05:39 AM

Hi Bob, I can imagine how you feel, the best way forward is to send the card of to Sony who will recover your data FOC, i was talking to the Sony UK rep in London on tuesday about the same issue (a what if scenario), for gods sake don't use the card otherwise you won't be able to recover the lost data.
Let me know how you get on

Regards

David Hart

Bob Kerner · February 21st, 2010, 07:50 AM

Having read thru the other threads, it appears the probability of recovering all my clips in a usable format is low. I'm not inclined to send my only 16gig card off to Sony for a vacation. Luckily I had a second camera; the footage is not nearly as nice but since this was a charity job to begin with I don't want to pay or lose use of the card for who-knows-how long.

I feel like a putz, though, for not write protecting the card but as a new day dawns I'm left with other questions:

1) Why isn't Clip Browser non-destructive. Should it really be that easy to delete your entire card from within a browser?

2) Will the write protect switch on the card protect the data from this type of numbskull mishap?

3) I've routinely used the delete command in Clip Browser to get rid of crappy clips I didn't want to import. Now, that doesn't seem so safe anymore. How do you get delete clips you don't want to import?

Thanks everyone

Piotr Wozniacki · February 21st, 2010, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kerner

How do you get delete clips you don't want to import?

Carefully.

;)

Sorry - couldn't resist.

Bob Kerner · February 21st, 2010, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Carefully.

;)

Sorry - couldn't resist.

Ahh yes. Don't Command-A for "select all" before deleting!

Piotr Wozniacki · February 21st, 2010, 08:25 AM

Also, you don't need to delete clips you don't want to import - you can have the ClipBrowser only export those marked OK.

Anyway, personally I always make full backup of the entire card before deleting anything at all.

Alister Chapman · February 21st, 2010, 08:25 AM

One way to bring in clips without bad takes is to copy just the clips you want in CB to a new folder, then when you are sure you have backed up all the material you need you can delete the card.

My workflow always involves making a backup of my material. If you have a backup, plus a working copy of your footage then accidental deletion from the working copy would not be a big deal. Disc drives are cheap enough these days to keep multiple copies of your footage.

The majority of file based issues are down to some kind of human error. Lets face it we all make mistakes from time to time especially when tired at the end of a long shoot. Anything that can be done to reduce the chance of an error is a good thing. Making a copy (or 2) of the entire BPAV folder rather than trying to save a few Mb here and there is probably a lot less risky than selectively picking files from a card that will be formated or erased before you have checked that you've got all your material.

Mitchell Lewis · February 21st, 2010, 09:02 AM

I know this doesn't help your situation now, but for the future, I would also suggest to backup the entire SxS card using Clip Browser to an external hard drive. I purchased a 2TB G-Tech G-DRIVE for $300 specifically to store BPAV folders. I chose the G-DRIVE because it's contains a single disc (better/cheaper to restore if the worst case scenario happens) and at 2TB it will take a long time for me to fill up (1-2 years?). I've tried WD and LaCie and had problems with both, but we've bought a number of G-Tech drives and so far we haven't had trouble with any of them.

Bob Kerner · February 21st, 2010, 09:34 AM

Thanks again. It's clear to me that I need to add a step: coping the entire BPAV folder somewhere before operating on it with Clip Browser.

Good points from one and all.

Brian Rhodes · February 21st, 2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kerner

I'm not feeling good about the end result but hopefully someone can suggest a remedy.

I was using Sony Clip Browser to tag my clips and move them off the SxS card to an archive drive. There were a couple of crappy clips I did not want to move, so I selected them and deleted them from within Clip Browser. Due to an errant keystroke, I inadvertently selected all clips for deletion. They appear to be gone forever.

They do not appear in Clip Browser even if I remount the SxS card. Opening the BPAV folder on the card directly reveals nothing and putting the card back in the camera reveals "No Clips." I have NOT reformatted the card. The clips are not in my trash bin.

Where the hell are the clips trashed from within Clip Browser (one would think they'd be in the trash) and is there any way for me to recover them?

I have done this before and formatted the card and did another shoot before I realized I did not have the clips saved. I use a program called The Un-Delete. I was able restore the clips.

Leonard Levy · February 21st, 2010, 02:47 PM

Bob, glad you got the message. I would add double back up before you decide to try any deletions and as you've already realized never do anything to or with the card itself other than a full copy.

I just always assume something is about to go wrong at all times. i think its generally a good attitude for any cameraperson, though living with paranoia is stressful.

I'm wary of the SDHC cards because it is difficult to hit the write protect switch and they are fragile.

February 20th, 2010, 07:41 PM	#1
Bob Kerner Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York Posts: 388	My first major screwup: deleted clips accidentally I'm not feeling good about the end result but hopefully someone can suggest a remedy. I was using Sony Clip Browser to tag my clips and move them off the SxS card to an archive drive. There were a couple of crappy clips I did not want to move, so I selected them and deleted them from within Clip Browser. Due to an errant keystroke, I inadvertently selected all clips for deletion. They appear to be gone forever. They do not appear in Clip Browser even if I remount the SxS card. Opening the BPAV folder on the card directly reveals nothing and putting the card back in the camera reveals "No Clips." I have NOT reformatted the card. The clips are not in my trash bin. Where the hell are the clips trashed from within Clip Browser (one would think they'd be in the trash) and is there any way for me to recover them?

February 20th, 2010, 10:19 PM	#2
Marty Welk Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: East Bay Cali Posts: 563	MOST of the deleting and formatting that is going on is just setting the clusters up for re-writing, therefore most of the time a deleted clip is still there till you overwrite it. Just wanted to tell you , if you find the right software for running a recovery chances are good to accomplish a recovery. ever delete a file off a Flash chip in windows? it dont go into the trash bin that i can recall, all the times i did it without thinking i dont ever remember it using the trashbin. course my version of XP is back a bit. mabey the idea was where would it GO? they had these small chips and if you made a bin ON THEM, people would just clean it almost immediataly anyways. Lock It, so nothing tries to write using it, most good recovery software doesnt require writing to the chip to do the recovery, unless it is unformat or something. __________________ ----------------sig----------------- Re-learning everything all over again, one more time.

February 20th, 2010, 10:32 PM	#3
Marty Welk Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: East Bay Cali Posts: 563	here are some threads that cover that http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...-sxs-card.html http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/long-bla...sad-story.html (some software that might do the trick) __________________ ----------------sig----------------- Re-learning everything all over again, one more time.

February 21st, 2010, 05:20 AM	#5
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	You might try Recuva: Recuva - Update - but the probability of recovering all clips is low. I noticed that during delete operation from the ClipBrowser, the clusters get crossed among the many files (apart from mp4s, you're also deleting all the other files that EX write into CLPR folders). As to not seeing your clips in the trash bin: you probably would find them there if you used OS tools to delete specific files; with ClipBrowser each delete gets rid of several associated files, and does it permanently (of course, it still doesn't physically wipe the sectors - but as I said, creates a mess of their logical structure). So, you will be lucky if you can recover 1-2 clips intact. __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

February 21st, 2010, 05:39 AM	#6
David Hart Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 29	SxS Deleted files Hi Bob, I can imagine how you feel, the best way forward is to send the card of to Sony who will recover your data FOC, i was talking to the Sony UK rep in London on tuesday about the same issue (a what if scenario), for gods sake don't use the card otherwise you won't be able to recover the lost data. Let me know how you get on Regards David Hart __________________ www.iceboxvideo.co.uk

February 21st, 2010, 01:21 AM	#4
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	cancelled comment

February 21st, 2010, 07:50 AM	#7
Bob Kerner Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York Posts: 388	Having read thru the other threads, it appears the probability of recovering all my clips in a usable format is low. I'm not inclined to send my only 16gig card off to Sony for a vacation. Luckily I had a second camera; the footage is not nearly as nice but since this was a charity job to begin with I don't want to pay or lose use of the card for who-knows-how long. I feel like a putz, though, for not write protecting the card but as a new day dawns I'm left with other questions: 1) Why isn't Clip Browser non-destructive. Should it really be that easy to delete your entire card from within a browser? 2) Will the write protect switch on the card protect the data from this type of numbskull mishap? 3) I've routinely used the delete command in Clip Browser to get rid of crappy clips I didn't want to import. Now, that doesn't seem so safe anymore. How do you get delete clips you don't want to import? Thanks everyone

February 21st, 2010, 08:25 AM	#10
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Also, you don't need to delete clips you don't want to import - you can have the ClipBrowser only export those marked OK. Anyway, personally I always make full backup of the entire card before deleting anything at all. __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

February 21st, 2010, 08:25 AM	#11
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	One way to bring in clips without bad takes is to copy just the clips you want in CB to a new folder, then when you are sure you have backed up all the material you need you can delete the card. My workflow always involves making a backup of my material. If you have a backup, plus a working copy of your footage then accidental deletion from the working copy would not be a big deal. Disc drives are cheap enough these days to keep multiple copies of your footage. The majority of file based issues are down to some kind of human error. Lets face it we all make mistakes from time to time especially when tired at the end of a long shoot. Anything that can be done to reduce the chance of an error is a good thing. Making a copy (or 2) of the entire BPAV folder rather than trying to save a few Mb here and there is probably a lot less risky than selectively picking files from a card that will be formated or erased before you have checked that you've got all your material. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

February 21st, 2010, 09:02 AM	#12
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	I know this doesn't help your situation now, but for the future, I would also suggest to backup the entire SxS card using Clip Browser to an external hard drive. I purchased a 2TB G-Tech G-DRIVE for $300 specifically to store BPAV folders. I chose the G-DRIVE because it's contains a single disc (better/cheaper to restore if the worst case scenario happens) and at 2TB it will take a long time for me to fill up (1-2 years?). I've tried WD and LaCie and had problems with both, but we've bought a number of G-Tech drives and so far we haven't had trouble with any of them. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

February 21st, 2010, 09:34 AM	#13
Bob Kerner Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York Posts: 388	Thanks again. It's clear to me that I need to add a step: coping the entire BPAV folder somewhere before operating on it with Clip Browser. Good points from one and all.

February 21st, 2010, 02:47 PM	#15
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Bob, glad you got the message. I would add double back up before you decide to try any deletions and as you've already realized never do anything to or with the card itself other than a full copy. I just always assume something is about to go wrong at all times. i think its generally a good attitude for any cameraperson, though living with paranoia is stressful. I'm wary of the SDHC cards because it is difficult to hit the write protect switch and they are fragile.