XDCAM First Purchase ? at DVinfo.net

Scott Comeau · February 19th, 2010, 06:46 PM

Hi All,

I'm looking for a entry level XDCAM.

What model should I get ?

Thanks Scott

Paul Cronin · February 19th, 2010, 06:56 PM

XDCAM EX1r you will be very happy and have loads of room to grow with the camera.

Ed Przyzycki · February 19th, 2010, 07:51 PM

I echo Scott's thoughts on the EX1r.

Personally though, I settled on an EX3 myself last fall after 'lurking' in several DvInfo.net camera forums for about 6 months prior. I've worked with several 'pro' cameras professionally for about 15 years, before deciding to invest in gear personally to develop my own business. (Funny that I'm slower and more methodical making decisions when I'm spending my own money!)

Anyway, the more time you take to read through legacy threads, the more you come to understand each camera's strengths and weaknesses based on your own needs. (Ironically, my needs evolved as I came to understand the strengths/weaknesses of each camera within the EX line)

It helped when I finally organized my priorities, which for me were based on: 1) budget 2) future-proof as much as possible 3) adaptability and 4) reliability.

I can't afford the 350 (even though it wasn't available at the time), but the EX3 was in reach - especially since I already had other must-haves, the EX3 allowed more lens options and was easier on my shoulder when I needed it to be, and came out after the EX1, so I was thinking most of the 'kinks' were worked out.

Obviously, there were more personal reasons, and each one in the line has advantages/disadvantages based on your priorities. The EX1r is a little 'less noticeable' in a crowd and can get some better low angles, for example - if that's a priority for you.

Mitchell Lewis · February 19th, 2010, 10:26 PM

EX1R. It's the most "basic" XDCAM camera you can buy. Well maybe that's not quite true...JVC makes that little camera that records XDCAM EX to SD Cards. I don't remember the model number. It's not a 1/2" chip and for other reasons the EX1R would be higher quality, but if you want the cheapest, go with the JVC, I've heard it's still pretty darn good. (but if it was me, I'd save my pennies for the EX1R or even the EX3 for the awesome viewfinder)

Craig Seeman · February 20th, 2010, 08:41 AM

JVC-HM100 is an XDCAM EX camera.

I'd really consider the Sony EX1r the basic full featured camera though. The JVC is missing some key features. It would be a good "b" camera to an EX though.

James McBoyle · February 20th, 2010, 03:33 PM

Really you have to ask what you want the camera for. AFAIK there are five cameras that shoot XDCamEX, three from Sony (EX1r, EX3, PMW350) and two from JVC (HM100, HM700).

For myself, the one that ticked the most boxes was the JVC HM700, but then I shoot live football (soccer) matches, so having long recording times, the ability to change lenses from telephoto to wide to do post-match interviews and a deep depth of field so I don't have out-of-focus goals was paramount. That I also get good looking footage is a nice bonus. I'm happy with the cam I chose, but you might have other boxes that need ticking.

...Or you can go for the EX1r, which _is_ a very nice camera for the price. :-)

Have Fun,
Jim.

Marty Welk · February 20th, 2010, 04:34 PM

a few differances i noticed about the NXcam, vrses the EX line that i had to think about.
There is an indication that the NXcam can simeltaneously record on its external hard drive, while recording on its flash chips (backup). sonys own HD run on the EX runs right out of a chip slot, and you cant record duplicate chip slots ;-(.
that would have been really important if . . .
the NXcam had full control of the lens items, vrses the digital disconnection from the user.
which would have been really important if . . .
the EX line had a longer zoom for its original lens like the NXcam.
Which would have been important if . . .
the Nxcam had in it 1/2 inch chips and full HD resolutions
which :-)

choices choices, plus the codec choices could be very important too.
If they had provided full control of the NXcam lens, i would probably have bent on the other things and gone with it for what i do. buying different lenses and changing them isnt what i would be doing.

So now i to have a Ex1r thing.

Jim Stamos · February 20th, 2010, 08:56 PM

marty , other than the lower bit rate at 24 and smaller chips, although these are major factors.im wondering how good the nxcam hd footage will compare to ex1 in comparable good lighting.
also wondering if the 1/3 inch cmos chips will offer better lowlight than the older ccd 1/3 chips that were on the pd170.
newer technology, you would think the lowlt would be improved but it may be no better than the pd170.
im figuring the 2 big differences are the reason most would go with the ex1r, unless they want a b cam which the nx may serve well.
your input welcome

btw, have you used the hoodman loupe?
im hearing its not long enough to comfortably look through when on a tripod.

Michael Maier · February 20th, 2010, 09:54 PM

Hard to go wrong with a EX1. 1/2" sensor, Full raster, great codec, great lens, great LCD and the list goes on. I have one and love it.

Marty Welk · February 20th, 2010, 10:07 PM

i was expecting a huge improvement with low-light after all the talk, from the PD-250 and VX2000 to the EX1r the low light between the 2 is "relative" not better, but that is great, because the low-light in some of the previous HD models completly sucked.
i would think that low light performance with the NXcam would be relative, smaller chips more lens to go through.
i dont remember if they said that the 5 and the NX both using the G lens had the light drop on extended zoom? ahh i forget, but that might be important too, loosing a "f-stop" of light capability when zooming to the subjects. (just having one more added thing to control, iris , when doing a zoom isnt going to help nothing)

i already wrote on your thread about the hoodman loupe, mine is going back :-( i didnt WANT mine to be long, i need to be able to stand alongside the camera when shooting in Seating. I never liked back viewers, they don't do hand held shoulder well, and they dont do crampt quarters well. i am hoping i can complete my design (for myself) on a shorty so i can again get cheekey with the camera, just like most broadcast cameras have been for ages.

Scott Comeau · February 21st, 2010, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Cronin

XDCAM EX1r you will be very happy and have loads of room to grow with the camera.

What do you think about the new NXCAM that is comming out should I wait and get the
Sony HXR-NX5U NXCAM

It's 2200 less that the XDCAM.

What do you think ?

Scott

Alister Chapman · February 21st, 2010, 09:36 AM

The HXR-NX5 uses the same lens and sensors as the Sony Z5 HDV camera. It uses Exmor sensors with clearvid which uses lower resolution chips twisted by 45 degrees and clever processing to get good resolution from big pixels. This gives reasonable low light performance for a 1/3" HD sensor. But it is just that, a 1/3" 3 chip camera and no matter what you do there is no substitute for bigger, full resolution sensors. The bigger sensors give lower noise, better sensitivity and higher latitude.

For a EX1/NX5 comparison just look at any Z5/EX1 comparison, the pictures will be pretty much the same. The EX1 clearly produces a better picture, but will you or your clients notice or care? Is the difference worth $2k? Only you and they can really decide that.

The AVCHD workflow is clunky compared to XDCAM EX, this should improve over time. The EX1 is approved for broadcast by many broadcasters, NX5 is not and is IMHO never likely to be. One is entry level, semi-pro the other is a true pro level camera.

Tom Robertson · February 21st, 2010, 09:01 PM

I too am looking at the EX1R and the NX5. I'm liking the EX1R a lot but the "jerky zoom" issue with the lens is really concerning me. Not having a smooth zoom at slow speed is a real issue to me. Am I more worried about this than I should be? If the cases I'm reading about are the exception and not the rule then maybe it's not that much of an issue. But if Sony won't admit it's a problem or correct it under warranty if you wind up purchasing one with that problem then that's a real concern for a potential buyer.

It seems there's no real choice but to choose the EX1R, but this still worries me. I don't see any other cam on the market that has the appeal of the EX1R in this price range.

Paul Cronin · February 22nd, 2010, 06:37 AM

Tom I have been using the EX1 heavily in my business for over two years and the zoom has never been a big problem. My PMW-350 has the same issue with stock lens but not as bad. Both are smoother with the remote zoom. Now the 2/3" Canon and Fujinon lens I am trying for the 350 do not have this problem but that is a different level of lens.

As I said in the beginning of this thread go for the EX1r you will not be disappointed. If you are send it back. If it is down the road, just look at the classified sections and see how fast they sell.

Tom Robertson · February 22nd, 2010, 07:54 AM

Thanks for the advice Paul. This is a major purchase for me and I just wanted to make sure I make a good decision. Everyone that has the EX1R seems to really like the camera and I think all cameras have some issue no matter what brand/model. Sounds like the EX1R is the way to go. I may wait until after NAB just to see what else comes out but I think the EX1R is the clear winner so far.

February 19th, 2010, 06:46 PM	#1
Scott Comeau Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: York, Maine Posts: 31	XDCAM First Purchase ? Hi All, I'm looking for a entry level XDCAM. What model should I get ? Thanks Scott

February 19th, 2010, 06:56 PM	#2
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	XDCAM EX1r you will be very happy and have loads of room to grow with the camera. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

February 19th, 2010, 10:26 PM	#4
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	EX1R. It's the most "basic" XDCAM camera you can buy. Well maybe that's not quite true...JVC makes that little camera that records XDCAM EX to SD Cards. I don't remember the model number. It's not a 1/2" chip and for other reasons the EX1R would be higher quality, but if you want the cheapest, go with the JVC, I've heard it's still pretty darn good. (but if it was me, I'd save my pennies for the EX1R or even the EX3 for the awesome viewfinder) __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

February 20th, 2010, 04:34 PM	#7
Marty Welk Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: East Bay Cali Posts: 563	a few differances i noticed about the NXcam, vrses the EX line that i had to think about. There is an indication that the NXcam can simeltaneously record on its external hard drive, while recording on its flash chips (backup). sonys own HD run on the EX runs right out of a chip slot, and you cant record duplicate chip slots ;-(. that would have been really important if . . . the NXcam had full control of the lens items, vrses the digital disconnection from the user. which would have been really important if . . . the EX line had a longer zoom for its original lens like the NXcam. Which would have been important if . . . the Nxcam had in it 1/2 inch chips and full HD resolutions which :-) choices choices, plus the codec choices could be very important too. If they had provided full control of the NXcam lens, i would probably have bent on the other things and gone with it for what i do. buying different lenses and changing them isnt what i would be doing. So now i to have a Ex1r thing. __________________ ----------------sig----------------- Re-learning everything all over again, one more time.

February 20th, 2010, 08:56 PM	#8
Jim Stamos Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 565	nxcam marty , other than the lower bit rate at 24 and smaller chips, although these are major factors.im wondering how good the nxcam hd footage will compare to ex1 in comparable good lighting. also wondering if the 1/3 inch cmos chips will offer better lowlight than the older ccd 1/3 chips that were on the pd170. newer technology, you would think the lowlt would be improved but it may be no better than the pd170. im figuring the 2 big differences are the reason most would go with the ex1r, unless they want a b cam which the nx may serve well. your input welcome btw, have you used the hoodman loupe? im hearing its not long enough to comfortably look through when on a tripod.

February 19th, 2010, 07:51 PM	#3
Ed Przyzycki Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: SouthWest Suburbs of Chicago, IL Posts: 55	I echo Scott's thoughts on the EX1r. Personally though, I settled on an EX3 myself last fall after 'lurking' in several DvInfo.net camera forums for about 6 months prior. I've worked with several 'pro' cameras professionally for about 15 years, before deciding to invest in gear personally to develop my own business. (Funny that I'm slower and more methodical making decisions when I'm spending my own money!) Anyway, the more time you take to read through legacy threads, the more you come to understand each camera's strengths and weaknesses based on your own needs. (Ironically, my needs evolved as I came to understand the strengths/weaknesses of each camera within the EX line) It helped when I finally organized my priorities, which for me were based on: 1) budget 2) future-proof as much as possible 3) adaptability and 4) reliability. I can't afford the 350 (even though it wasn't available at the time), but the EX3 was in reach - especially since I already had other must-haves, the EX3 allowed more lens options and was easier on my shoulder when I needed it to be, and came out after the EX1, so I was thinking most of the 'kinks' were worked out. Obviously, there were more personal reasons, and each one in the line has advantages/disadvantages based on your priorities. The EX1r is a little 'less noticeable' in a crowd and can get some better low angles, for example - if that's a priority for you.

February 20th, 2010, 08:41 AM	#5
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	JVC-HM100 is an XDCAM EX camera. I'd really consider the Sony EX1r the basic full featured camera though. The JVC is missing some key features. It would be a good "b" camera to an EX though.

February 20th, 2010, 03:33 PM	#6
James McBoyle Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 87	Really you have to ask what you want the camera for. AFAIK there are five cameras that shoot XDCamEX, three from Sony (EX1r, EX3, PMW350) and two from JVC (HM100, HM700). For myself, the one that ticked the most boxes was the JVC HM700, but then I shoot live football (soccer) matches, so having long recording times, the ability to change lenses from telephoto to wide to do post-match interviews and a deep depth of field so I don't have out-of-focus goals was paramount. That I also get good looking footage is a nice bonus. I'm happy with the cam I chose, but you might have other boxes that need ticking. ...Or you can go for the EX1r, which _is_ a very nice camera for the price. :-) Have Fun, Jim.

February 20th, 2010, 09:54 PM	#9
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Hard to go wrong with a EX1. 1/2" sensor, Full raster, great codec, great lens, great LCD and the list goes on. I have one and love it.

February 20th, 2010, 10:07 PM	#10
Marty Welk Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: East Bay Cali Posts: 563	i was expecting a huge improvement with low-light after all the talk, from the PD-250 and VX2000 to the EX1r the low light between the 2 is "relative" not better, but that is great, because the low-light in some of the previous HD models completly sucked. i would think that low light performance with the NXcam would be relative, smaller chips more lens to go through. i dont remember if they said that the 5 and the NX both using the G lens had the light drop on extended zoom? ahh i forget, but that might be important too, loosing a "f-stop" of light capability when zooming to the subjects. (just having one more added thing to control, iris , when doing a zoom isnt going to help nothing) i already wrote on your thread about the hoodman loupe, mine is going back :-( i didnt WANT mine to be long, i need to be able to stand alongside the camera when shooting in Seating. I never liked back viewers, they don't do hand held shoulder well, and they dont do crampt quarters well. i am hoping i can complete my design (for myself) on a shorty so i can again get cheekey with the camera, just like most broadcast cameras have been for ages. __________________ ----------------sig----------------- Re-learning everything all over again, one more time.

February 21st, 2010, 09:36 AM	#12
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	The HXR-NX5 uses the same lens and sensors as the Sony Z5 HDV camera. It uses Exmor sensors with clearvid which uses lower resolution chips twisted by 45 degrees and clever processing to get good resolution from big pixels. This gives reasonable low light performance for a 1/3" HD sensor. But it is just that, a 1/3" 3 chip camera and no matter what you do there is no substitute for bigger, full resolution sensors. The bigger sensors give lower noise, better sensitivity and higher latitude. For a EX1/NX5 comparison just look at any Z5/EX1 comparison, the pictures will be pretty much the same. The EX1 clearly produces a better picture, but will you or your clients notice or care? Is the difference worth $2k? Only you and they can really decide that. The AVCHD workflow is clunky compared to XDCAM EX, this should improve over time. The EX1 is approved for broadcast by many broadcasters, NX5 is not and is IMHO never likely to be. One is entry level, semi-pro the other is a true pro level camera. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

February 21st, 2010, 09:01 PM	#13
Tom Robertson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Weirton, WV Posts: 412	I too am looking at the EX1R and the NX5. I'm liking the EX1R a lot but the "jerky zoom" issue with the lens is really concerning me. Not having a smooth zoom at slow speed is a real issue to me. Am I more worried about this than I should be? If the cases I'm reading about are the exception and not the rule then maybe it's not that much of an issue. But if Sony won't admit it's a problem or correct it under warranty if you wind up purchasing one with that problem then that's a real concern for a potential buyer. It seems there's no real choice but to choose the EX1R, but this still worries me. I don't see any other cam on the market that has the appeal of the EX1R in this price range. Last edited by Tom Robertson; February 21st, 2010 at 10:10 PM.

February 22nd, 2010, 06:37 AM	#14
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Tom I have been using the EX1 heavily in my business for over two years and the zoom has never been a big problem. My PMW-350 has the same issue with stock lens but not as bad. Both are smoother with the remote zoom. Now the 2/3" Canon and Fujinon lens I am trying for the 350 do not have this problem but that is a different level of lens. As I said in the beginning of this thread go for the EX1r you will not be disappointed. If you are send it back. If it is down the road, just look at the classified sections and see how fast they sell. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

February 22nd, 2010, 07:54 AM	#15
Tom Robertson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Weirton, WV Posts: 412	Thanks for the advice Paul. This is a major purchase for me and I just wanted to make sure I make a good decision. Everyone that has the EX1R seems to really like the camera and I think all cameras have some issue no matter what brand/model. Sounds like the EX1R is the way to go. I may wait until after NAB just to see what else comes out but I think the EX1R is the clear winner so far.