Shot Karaoke singer with EX1, can I use the audio? at DVinfo.net

Annen James · February 19th, 2010, 04:53 PM

Hello,
I was in a karaoke bar, only for filming purposes! ;) and shot a great take of a man singing a Creedence song. My question is, and I've looked but found no answers, is, can I use this clip (audio + video). Would I have the rights to it (guy signed model release) or would I have to get a hold of Creedence's label? Thanks for any insight.

Chad Johnson · February 19th, 2010, 05:00 PM

If you purchased the karaoke CD, and the songs are licensed as royalty free you should be able to use them somewhat. Read the license info on the CD. But it may be limited to live performance only. I can't see taking a big pop hit from a major artist, and using a karaoke version in a project you would sell. Otherwise I would buy karaoke CDs and use that as music in my video projects. Hell maybe I can!

Craig Seeman · February 19th, 2010, 07:16 PM

If the EX1 made a loud BOOM while shooting the Karaoke singer some might find that appropriate and you could probably use the boom and the blood curdling screams that followed.

On the other hand having the right to sing to the music and even record the singer might not give you the synchronization rights of music to any picture at all.

Ed Przyzycki · February 19th, 2010, 07:37 PM

I'm not a lawyer and not really offering legal advise here, but in my experiences (in addition to the above comments):

1) If you are likely to profit from the use of the work, or
2) The perceived copyright owner may lose money or suffer some other perceived 'loss' as a result of you using the work, or
3) You duplicate or broadcast the work without their permission

then you are more likely to be at risk. Remember that you can't control what your client does after you relinquish a completed project to them. With that in mind...

In cases when I feel 'at risk', I simply transfer copyright ownership of my work (the raw video, edit, etc- when I am willing) to the client, ask my client to sign a form indicating that they "are responsible for obtaining any and all licenses to works used herein".

Bob Grant · February 19th, 2010, 10:40 PM

My understanding is yes, you own the rights to "it" i.e. your recording of the performance. No one can use your video of the performance without your permission.
That in no way gives you the rights to the music within the recording.

Chad Johnson · February 20th, 2010, 12:36 AM

I've released this karaoke jam world wide, and haven't got any summons to appear in court yet!

YouTube - Raven Calypso: The Climb Karaoke - Sony PMW-EX1 Test

My niece and my EX1...

Mick Haensler · February 20th, 2010, 07:50 AM

It depends on your state. In some states, Kair-E-O-Kee in and of itself is a crime. I would be more concerned about THAT than anything else.

Richard Crowley · February 20th, 2010, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Johnson

I've released this karaoke jam world wide, and haven't got any summons to appear in court yet!

YouTube - Raven Calypso: The Climb Karaoke - Sony PMW-EX1 Test

My niece and my EX1...

Where "released" means posted to YouTube, which specifically has music "performance" rights covered as contracted between Google (YouTube owner) and the major performance rights agencies. YouTube is NOT an example of releasing unlicensed content.

If the OP wants to make home movies for the amusement of his immediate family and friends in his living room, then he is likely OK. But if he releases into the public a video with music he doesn't have legal rights to, then he is liable. Possession, even ownership of a distribution copy does NOT convey any kind of sync rights. A karaoke disk, in particular, may intrinsically carry a license for live "public performance" (like bad singing to drunk bar patrons), but NOT any kind of recording, either audio or video. Note that a regular CD is NOT licensed for public "performance", or broadcast, etc. Nor is license for live public performance covered by possession of the sheet music.

Posting on YouTube is covered for "public performance" rights by other means, so it is not a valid precedent. Note that many videos on YouTube, "music videos" and otherwise, feature a pop-up identifying the song and the performer and providing a link to go and buy the song. I have to believe that this is likely one of the concessions that Google (YouTube) made to avoid legal liability for the content themselves. Google has a whole legal team dealing with these things. None of us even know that many lawyers.

Chad Johnson · February 20th, 2010, 02:16 PM

I was just joking around. If I put that performance on a CD and tried to sell it I would be in deep doo-doo. I think it gets serious when one tries to make money with stuff that they didn't write, or they aren't paying royalties on.

February 19th, 2010, 04:53 PM	#1
Annen James Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ogden Posts: 161	Shot Karaoke singer with EX1, can I use the audio? Hello, I was in a karaoke bar, only for filming purposes! ;) and shot a great take of a man singing a Creedence song. My question is, and I've looked but found no answers, is, can I use this clip (audio + video). Would I have the rights to it (guy signed model release) or would I have to get a hold of Creedence's label? Thanks for any insight.

February 19th, 2010, 05:00 PM	#2
Chad Johnson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Arcata, Ca Posts: 750	If you purchased the karaoke CD, and the songs are licensed as royalty free you should be able to use them somewhat. Read the license info on the CD. But it may be limited to live performance only. I can't see taking a big pop hit from a major artist, and using a karaoke version in a project you would sell. Otherwise I would buy karaoke CDs and use that as music in my video projects. Hell maybe I can! __________________ My Work: http://www.youtube.com/ChadWork1 Sony FS5 :: Panasonic GH4 :: Sony PMW-EX1 :: FCPx :: AT4053b :: Rode NTG-3,

February 20th, 2010, 12:36 AM	#6
Chad Johnson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Arcata, Ca Posts: 750	I've released this karaoke jam world wide, and haven't got any summons to appear in court yet! YouTube - Raven Calypso: The Climb Karaoke - Sony PMW-EX1 Test My niece and my EX1... __________________ My Work: http://www.youtube.com/ChadWork1 Sony FS5 :: Panasonic GH4 :: Sony PMW-EX1 :: FCPx :: AT4053b :: Rode NTG-3,

February 20th, 2010, 02:16 PM	#9
Chad Johnson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Arcata, Ca Posts: 750	I was just joking around. If I put that performance on a CD and tried to sell it I would be in deep doo-doo. I think it gets serious when one tries to make money with stuff that they didn't write, or they aren't paying royalties on. __________________ My Work: http://www.youtube.com/ChadWork1 Sony FS5 :: Panasonic GH4 :: Sony PMW-EX1 :: FCPx :: AT4053b :: Rode NTG-3,

February 19th, 2010, 07:16 PM	#3
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	If the EX1 made a loud BOOM while shooting the Karaoke singer some might find that appropriate and you could probably use the boom and the blood curdling screams that followed. On the other hand having the right to sing to the music and even record the singer might not give you the synchronization rights of music to any picture at all.

February 19th, 2010, 07:37 PM	#4
Ed Przyzycki Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: SouthWest Suburbs of Chicago, IL Posts: 55	I'm not a lawyer and not really offering legal advise here, but in my experiences (in addition to the above comments): 1) If you are likely to profit from the use of the work, or 2) The perceived copyright owner may lose money or suffer some other perceived 'loss' as a result of you using the work, or 3) You duplicate or broadcast the work without their permission then you are more likely to be at risk. Remember that you can't control what your client does after you relinquish a completed project to them. With that in mind... In cases when I feel 'at risk', I simply transfer copyright ownership of my work (the raw video, edit, etc- when I am willing) to the client, ask my client to sign a form indicating that they "are responsible for obtaining any and all licenses to works used herein".

February 19th, 2010, 10:40 PM	#5
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	My understanding is yes, you own the rights to "it" i.e. your recording of the performance. No one can use your video of the performance without your permission. That in no way gives you the rights to the music within the recording.

February 20th, 2010, 07:50 AM	#7
Mick Haensler Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Salisbury, MD Posts: 122	It depends on your state. In some states, Kair-E-O-Kee in and of itself is a crime. I would be more concerned about THAT than anything else.