PMW-350 or EX1 with nanoflash

Piotr Wozniacki · February 12th, 2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

After 4 surgeries and 8 weeks of chemo/radiation, my first post-cancer (tonsil/neck) Cat-Scan result came back fine today. Now I'm stricken with the fear I may actually survive it for a while and even get back to good health! How depressing! ;)

Actually I am very happy!

And I'm very happy for you getting better, Tom!

Tom Roper · February 13th, 2010, 12:52 PM

Thank you Piotr. And Paul, let's try and hookup if you get out this way.

James W. Graham · February 13th, 2010, 03:43 PM

Somebody please make the 350 go away... it's too tempting, i tell you! Just,,, a few.. keystrokes to.. enter my credit card info... and.. the 350 will be all mine, MINE, i tell you!!

It's driving me crazy.

Batteries, that's all I'd have to get.. I.. I have everything else....

John Mitchell · February 13th, 2010, 08:55 PM

If I was in your enviable position the 350 every time. But buy the Nanoflash as well, especially if you plan to do any chromakey work. Just remember when you buy the Nano that there are associated costs - decent CF cards don't come cheap (although cheaper than SxS) and you'll probably want a Nexto as well to offload footage on location.

James W. Graham · February 13th, 2010, 10:11 PM

Just as a point of interest, for chromakey I use Ultra, a version from the days when it was still owned by Serious Magic. The program is amazing, even the cheapest of cameras are processed flawlessly in Ultra... I've always found chromkey work in After Effects to be a heart stopping affair. It's effortless and flawless in ultra. No idea what it;s like now that Adobe has purchased it.

Paul Cronin · February 14th, 2010, 09:02 AM

James if you do go 350 make sure you don't have surprises when you purchase extra gear. Abel can be a huge help here.

You say you have what you need so most of my list could be left out correct? I also could be missing things but I think they would be small. Filters, Matte Box, Remote Focus, camera light.

You could also just buy camera, batteries, and SxS cards but you would be limited.

Make sure you have a great tripod! The picture is so sharp even cut down in details settings that the slightest movement in a under-rated tripod will show. Which means 45lbs load rated head is the very minimum and the sticks should be rated at 1.5x the head. And a tripod bag

Batteries with chargers will be around $1600 I have two 130w/h batteries and am buying a third since I run the Nano and some times a light off the same power. We did a night shoot and luckly there was a charger near by.

Camera travel bag $400

6 – 16GB SxS cards. Cheap cards are not worth it in my opinion. Not asking to be bashed here just giving my opinion. $3,175

Nano $2995

Cards Sandisk Extreme 32GB, ten cards $2,400 (Don’t skimp have the card rated at full Nano since it will only get faster) and by enough so a client can take cards if they like. I have had this happen twice with clients and had to shoot the next day.

Waterproof cover $400

Tripod plate $250 if you go cheap Sony $800 if you go Rondford- Baker. I have both Sony for close up on/off tripod and Ronford- Baker when you use long glass. Huge difference in stiffness

Zoom start/stop remote $200

Other items I think are needed but you could go with out.
Wide or long HD 2/3” glass est $15 used $20K new
Sony U1 Optical Drive $3K
Sony Optical Disk to get started backing up long term and send to high end clients who request this format: $5K (This amount comes back on what you sell but not for archived disk)

Paul Inglis · February 14th, 2010, 10:11 AM

Hi James,

Ever considered the EX-3 with a nanoflash? This would give you the best of both worlds for making doco’s IMO.

My current rig is;

PMW-EX3 (with VGadgets reinforced tripod plate)
Protech ST-7 Full Shoulder Mount, Endura 10 Battery, A-MWR Bracket, nanoFLASH
J-Rod Twin Mic Mount 416 Shotgun mic with deadcat and 2 off G2 Wireless Receivers

The above is a good cheap broadcast solution on a budget and can be got for less than the cost of a 350! Due to budget constraints I would only opt for the 350 if you really need to work in low light!

That said if you can afford the 350 plus accessories then go for it. The only draw back is the big form factor for certain run gun tasks!

James W. Graham · February 14th, 2010, 10:36 AM

Paul, I looked at the Ex3 but nixed it in favour of the EX1R, the rationale being that basically they are the same cam (from what I've read of the specs). From what I understand the ex1r does a full image flip, whereas the ex3 only flips vertically, but not horizontally. Ergo, if you pan left the view finder displays a pan right, and that would be highly annoying for those many occassions that I'll be using a dof adapter (I like the G5).

Also, since reading that the ex1 has been confered silver status by Discovery, I find myself further pushed in the EX1R direction. Basically a hell of a cam for the price. An EXR1 with Nano and I believe I can do most of what I have in mind.

If my information is incorrect please let me know. I appreciate everybody chiming in to help me make this decision. It's invaluable.

Alister Chapman · February 14th, 2010, 10:37 AM

Your quite right about the lack of flip in the EX3.

James W. Graham · February 14th, 2010, 10:49 AM

I pay careful attention to marketing claims of flipped image. Is it really a flipped image? Canon screwed me once (only once?) when I bough an xl-h1 and was swayed by their highly touted claimed of flipped image... only to discover that when i took delivery of it, it would only flip the image (I swear I'm not making this up) if their lense *wasnt* attached. Unbelievable.

This was two years ago, before any of the dof majors started making relays. I dont know what canon was thinking.

Paul Cronin · February 14th, 2010, 11:19 AM

James sounds like you are doing the proper research. Have you looked at the Vortex Media EX1r video?
Vortex Media: VIDEO & PHOTO Tools and Training

Not sure if Doug discusses the flip or not but this portion of the video about the EX1r upgrade is free to view at that link. The rest of the EX1 video is worth the money if you buy the camera. it will have you up and running quickly with great accurate info.

I do not know if the flip works properly or not.

I have been very happy with my EX1 it has surprised me when ever it was broadcast on TV how clean the picture looks. With the DOF and primes and your experience using this setup you will be dialed.

Steve Connor · February 14th, 2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James W. Graham

I pay careful attention to marketing claims of flipped image. Is it really a flipped image?

Yes it is! you

James W. Graham · February 14th, 2010, 03:35 PM

Paul, you're right, the new video covers all the new aspects of the ex1r, and the information I was looking for is confirmed: that the cam flips the image on both axis. Wow. That's serious money saved by not having to purchase flip modules.

Thanks for that buddy!

Alistair, your site, XDCAM-USER.com, and Pauls site are both the first two urls on my video hotlist in favourites. I'm impressed with how thoroughly you each detail your reviews. Even giving Philip Bloom a run for the money :-)

Sad to learn that the ex1r only overcranks up to 720x1280... but this is the only negative I can find about this cam.

Canon and Panasonic may as well just shut down, I cant see anybody eclipsing this cam in this and the next couple of classes.

Now I'll see if there is a dof forum here and see what you guys think of the G5 :-)

Paul Cronin · February 15th, 2010, 06:39 PM

James always glad to help. Nice to be mentioned in the same sentence as Alister and Phil, both have been a huge help to me over the years.

We all would be glad to have 1080p 60p but for the price we have to be happy with clean 720p 60p.

James W. Graham · February 15th, 2010, 07:30 PM

30 years ago i studied television production in college. I recall using bulky, very heavy Ikegamis that used lead oxide pickup tubes, a forerunner to ccd's. Anyway, it blows me away that it took a crew and some unwileldy and expensive equipment to yield the results we are enjoying today for under then thousand dollars worth of equipment.

The mind boggles to think of what the next 30 years will bring. Despite missing must have's such as zebra, peaking, etc, I'm amazed by what I can create with my 7D. I literally shot a commcercial the other day just using a 7D and Zoom H4N audio recorder. That was a heady experience.

I want them allll, all the toys, send them to me :-)

February 14th, 2010, 09:02 AM	#36
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	James if you do go 350 make sure you don't have surprises when you purchase extra gear. Abel can be a huge help here. You say you have what you need so most of my list could be left out correct? I also could be missing things but I think they would be small. Filters, Matte Box, Remote Focus, camera light. You could also just buy camera, batteries, and SxS cards but you would be limited. Make sure you have a great tripod! The picture is so sharp even cut down in details settings that the slightest movement in a under-rated tripod will show. Which means 45lbs load rated head is the very minimum and the sticks should be rated at 1.5x the head. And a tripod bag Batteries with chargers will be around $1600 I have two 130w/h batteries and am buying a third since I run the Nano and some times a light off the same power. We did a night shoot and luckly there was a charger near by. Camera travel bag $400 6 – 16GB SxS cards. Cheap cards are not worth it in my opinion. Not asking to be bashed here just giving my opinion. $3,175 Nano $2995 Cards Sandisk Extreme 32GB, ten cards $2,400 (Don’t skimp have the card rated at full Nano since it will only get faster) and by enough so a client can take cards if they like. I have had this happen twice with clients and had to shoot the next day. Waterproof cover $400 Tripod plate $250 if you go cheap Sony $800 if you go Rondford- Baker. I have both Sony for close up on/off tripod and Ronford- Baker when you use long glass. Huge difference in stiffness Zoom start/stop remote $200 Other items I think are needed but you could go with out. Wide or long HD 2/3” glass est $15 used $20K new Sony U1 Optical Drive $3K Sony Optical Disk to get started backing up long term and send to high end clients who request this format: $5K (This amount comes back on what you sell but not for archived disk) __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

February 14th, 2010, 10:37 AM	#39
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Your quite right about the lack of flip in the EX3. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

February 14th, 2010, 11:19 AM	#41
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	James sounds like you are doing the proper research. Have you looked at the Vortex Media EX1r video? Vortex Media: VIDEO & PHOTO Tools and Training Not sure if Doug discusses the flip or not but this portion of the video about the EX1r upgrade is free to view at that link. The rest of the EX1 video is worth the money if you buy the camera. it will have you up and running quickly with great accurate info. I do not know if the flip works properly or not. I have been very happy with my EX1 it has surprised me when ever it was broadcast on TV how clean the picture looks. With the DOF and primes and your experience using this setup you will be dialed. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

February 15th, 2010, 06:39 PM	#44
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	James always glad to help. Nice to be mentioned in the same sentence as Alister and Phil, both have been a huge help to me over the years. We all would be glad to have 1080p 60p but for the price we have to be happy with clean 720p 60p. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com Last edited by Paul Cronin; February 15th, 2010 at 07:28 PM.

February 13th, 2010, 12:52 PM	#32
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Thank you Piotr. And Paul, let's try and hookup if you get out this way.

February 13th, 2010, 03:43 PM	#33
James W. Graham Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ottawa & Toronto, Canada Posts: 27	Somebody please make the 350 go away... it's too tempting, i tell you! Just,,, a few.. keystrokes to.. enter my credit card info... and.. the 350 will be all mine, MINE, i tell you!! It's driving me crazy. Batteries, that's all I'd have to get.. I.. I have everything else....

February 13th, 2010, 08:55 PM	#34
John Mitchell Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 873	If I was in your enviable position the 350 every time. But buy the Nanoflash as well, especially if you plan to do any chromakey work. Just remember when you buy the Nano that there are associated costs - decent CF cards don't come cheap (although cheaper than SxS) and you'll probably want a Nexto as well to offload footage on location.

February 13th, 2010, 10:11 PM	#35
James W. Graham Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ottawa & Toronto, Canada Posts: 27	Just as a point of interest, for chromakey I use Ultra, a version from the days when it was still owned by Serious Magic. The program is amazing, even the cheapest of cameras are processed flawlessly in Ultra... I've always found chromkey work in After Effects to be a heart stopping affair. It's effortless and flawless in ultra. No idea what it;s like now that Adobe has purchased it.

February 14th, 2010, 10:11 AM	#37
Paul Inglis Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: British Isles Posts: 415	Hi James, Ever considered the EX-3 with a nanoflash? This would give you the best of both worlds for making doco’s IMO. My current rig is; PMW-EX3 (with VGadgets reinforced tripod plate) Protech ST-7 Full Shoulder Mount, Endura 10 Battery, A-MWR Bracket, nanoFLASH J-Rod Twin Mic Mount 416 Shotgun mic with deadcat and 2 off G2 Wireless Receivers The above is a good cheap broadcast solution on a budget and can be got for less than the cost of a 350! Due to budget constraints I would only opt for the 350 if you really need to work in low light! That said if you can afford the 350 plus accessories then go for it. The only draw back is the big form factor for certain run gun tasks!

February 14th, 2010, 10:36 AM	#38
James W. Graham Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ottawa & Toronto, Canada Posts: 27	Paul, I looked at the Ex3 but nixed it in favour of the EX1R, the rationale being that basically they are the same cam (from what I've read of the specs). From what I understand the ex1r does a full image flip, whereas the ex3 only flips vertically, but not horizontally. Ergo, if you pan left the view finder displays a pan right, and that would be highly annoying for those many occassions that I'll be using a dof adapter (I like the G5). Also, since reading that the ex1 has been confered silver status by Discovery, I find myself further pushed in the EX1R direction. Basically a hell of a cam for the price. An EXR1 with Nano and I believe I can do most of what I have in mind. If my information is incorrect please let me know. I appreciate everybody chiming in to help me make this decision. It's invaluable.

February 14th, 2010, 10:49 AM	#40
James W. Graham Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ottawa & Toronto, Canada Posts: 27	I pay careful attention to marketing claims of flipped image. Is it really a flipped image? Canon screwed me once (only once?) when I bough an xl-h1 and was swayed by their highly touted claimed of flipped image... only to discover that when i took delivery of it, it would only flip the image (I swear I'm not making this up) if their lense wasnt attached. Unbelievable. This was two years ago, before any of the dof majors started making relays. I dont know what canon was thinking.

February 14th, 2010, 03:35 PM	#43
James W. Graham Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ottawa & Toronto, Canada Posts: 27	Paul, you're right, the new video covers all the new aspects of the ex1r, and the information I was looking for is confirmed: that the cam flips the image on both axis. Wow. That's serious money saved by not having to purchase flip modules. Thanks for that buddy! Alistair, your site, XDCAM-USER.com, and Pauls site are both the first two urls on my video hotlist in favourites. I'm impressed with how thoroughly you each detail your reviews. Even giving Philip Bloom a run for the money :-) Sad to learn that the ex1r only overcranks up to 720x1280... but this is the only negative I can find about this cam. Canon and Panasonic may as well just shut down, I cant see anybody eclipsing this cam in this and the next couple of classes. Now I'll see if there is a dof forum here and see what you guys think of the G5 :-)

February 15th, 2010, 07:30 PM	#45
James W. Graham Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ottawa & Toronto, Canada Posts: 27	30 years ago i studied television production in college. I recall using bulky, very heavy Ikegamis that used lead oxide pickup tubes, a forerunner to ccd's. Anyway, it blows me away that it took a crew and some unwileldy and expensive equipment to yield the results we are enjoying today for under then thousand dollars worth of equipment. The mind boggles to think of what the next 30 years will bring. Despite missing must have's such as zebra, peaking, etc, I'm amazed by what I can create with my 7D. I literally shot a commcercial the other day just using a 7D and Zoom H4N audio recorder. That was a heady experience. I want them allll, all the toys, send them to me :-)