Tiffen T1 filter on all the time? at DVinfo.net

Steve Browne · January 23rd, 2010, 01:36 AM

Do most people keep the Tiffen T1 filter on all the time?

I have an EX3. I live in Australia which means hot golden sunny afternoons.
I have the Schneider 486 + the T1
At present I try and shoot everything with no filter (only UV filter) and would only use the 486 if I thought I was going to have a problem

I find the yellow tinge (after whitebalancing) of the T1 quite unattractive against having no filter, especially with Skin tones.
Using no filter gives a subtle reddish depth to faces.

Whether of course this noticeable when the final product is for Web or DVD is another question.

Personally I need to get everything as right as possible in the camera.
I colour correct the footage in Final Cut - and this is basically adjusting the whitebalance, improving skintones and brightness.

The T1 changes the colour quite a bit in the camera. I don't really have the skills to undo that in Final Cut.
Does anybody have good Picture Profile settings to fix up the picture in the camera?
Of course I would like to have true blacks - but not at the expense of loosing the lovely clear picture that the camera has by itself

Bruce Rawlings · January 23rd, 2010, 05:57 AM

Do you not white balance with the filter in place to get around the problem?

Steve Browne · January 23rd, 2010, 07:08 AM

Yes but it still looks sort of murky to what it was before without the filter

Olof Ekbergh · January 23rd, 2010, 08:44 AM

I use a UV filter on my EX3 and EX1R all the time except when using the mattebox with filters.

I have never had a far red problem. I know I am lucky, I am not saying the problem does not exist. I have shot quite a few black suits, maybe it is the fact that I almost always use daylight lights HMI, fluorescent or lately LCD's. I think tungsten lights seem to aggravate the situation.

What I do if I notice a problem in the shot, is white balance with some of the questionable black fabric in the frame with the white card (about 50/50). Having a good evaluation monitor helps spot the problem before it bites you hard.

Piotr Wozniacki · January 23rd, 2010, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh

I think tungsten lights seem to aggravate the situation.

They absolutely do, Olof. However, even with natural light, when you use heavy ND filtering the far red problem is obvious.

Perhaps you just happen to use some special PP, which crunches blacks a lot - this would turn all possible shades of black into deep black?

Re: the OP's question - after proper WB-alancing, I do not have any color shift with my T1.

Bruce Rawlings · January 23rd, 2010, 10:53 AM

I have shot interviews with staff dressed in green corporate colours and now they have maroon/brown jackets! Tiffin filter now in place at all times and no problems. You do not know what is around the corner to stuff you. By the way the Tiffin filter thread will not hold filter ring for fixing on matte box so now have to get rails, all because Sony fitted the wrong filters.

Simon Wyndham · January 23rd, 2010, 01:50 PM

I have found that the T1 seems to muddy things somewhat. I am going to do more experimentation though. I will say that it is an absolutely essential filter to have in the toolkit first gen EX1's and EX3's, but I doubt I will keep mine on all the time.

Ed Kukla · January 24th, 2010, 08:01 AM

I set out a black fabric tripod case & a black fleece on a black leather sofa. Lit with plenty of indirect daylight. The leather sofa was BLACK, the tripod case was somewhat red and the fleece was very reddish brown. No tungsten, no direct sunlight. Very blue indirect daylight.
I shot a project outdoors on a cloudy day. Many, many people wearing various black clothing. Virtually all the black synthetics turned reddish brown. Looked like a UPS convention. This was before I received the T-1 filter.
It's definitely not just tungsten.

Since this problem came up with EX, I've been watching for this on TV. I've been seeing it a lot now that I'm looking for it. It isn't just EX cameras. I'm sure a lot of what I have seen was not shot with EX. It's less of a problem but it's still there.

Marcus Durham · January 24th, 2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kukla

It's definitely not just tungsten.

Agreed. I've done a number of shoots outdoors over the past 7 months with an EX1 and the problem is evident in all outdoor lighting conditions.

The most amusing was a shot of a brass band playing. You could see exactly which members had cheaper jackets/trousers that had a synthetic blend, and which members had the more expensive natural fibres!

One member had a jacket that was OK except for the fact his lapels were synthetic!

My T1 is on order but I'll only be using it where it is required.

Simon Wyndham · January 24th, 2010, 06:54 PM

I can just see the situation now,

"Sorry old chap, but your taste in clothing is far too cheap to appear in front of *my* camera."

Marcus Durham · January 24th, 2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

I can just see the situation now,

"Sorry old chap, but your taste in clothing is far too cheap to appear in front of *my* camera."

It was just amazing how 10 or so people in what looked like identical attire to the naked eye were all in fact not wearing not quite identical attire at all. Luckily for me it didn't matter on that occasion.

But imagine you were covering a concert orchestra only for the view to be peppered by people wearing brown/purple instead of black!

Even if some people reading this think they don't need a T1, they could save an awful lot of explaining to the client if they stash one in the camera bag just in case.

John Hamlik · January 24th, 2010, 10:53 PM

You mean something like this.

Marcus Durham · January 25th, 2010, 05:40 AM

A great illustration of the problem!

Bob Grant · January 25th, 2010, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

I have found that the T1 seems to muddy things somewhat. I am going to do more experimentation though. I will say that it is an absolutely essential filter to have in the toolkit first gen EX1's and EX3's, but I doubt I will keep mine on all the time.

I have the same feeling, just looking at a red LED through it I can see how much it is attenuating the visible red part of the spectrum. By very crude measurements using the camera I'd say the loss is over 1 stop. By comparison the 486 shows no loss. The 486 stays on the camera.
Only reason I bought the T1 was to try it out and also to see if I could fit it behind my WA adapter.

Simon Wyndham · January 25th, 2010, 06:52 AM

I could be wrong, but I felt that on the last shoot I did that the T1 made peoples faces a bit pasty. Again, it could have just been the light and I need to use it a bit more to be sure.

January 23rd, 2010, 01:36 AM	#1
Steve Browne New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sunshine Coast, Aus Posts: 20	Tiffen T1 filter on all the time? Do most people keep the Tiffen T1 filter on all the time? I have an EX3. I live in Australia which means hot golden sunny afternoons. I have the Schneider 486 + the T1 At present I try and shoot everything with no filter (only UV filter) and would only use the 486 if I thought I was going to have a problem I find the yellow tinge (after whitebalancing) of the T1 quite unattractive against having no filter, especially with Skin tones. Using no filter gives a subtle reddish depth to faces. Whether of course this noticeable when the final product is for Web or DVD is another question. Personally I need to get everything as right as possible in the camera. I colour correct the footage in Final Cut - and this is basically adjusting the whitebalance, improving skintones and brightness. The T1 changes the colour quite a bit in the camera. I don't really have the skills to undo that in Final Cut. Does anybody have good Picture Profile settings to fix up the picture in the camera? Of course I would like to have true blacks - but not at the expense of loosing the lovely clear picture that the camera has by itself

January 23rd, 2010, 10:53 AM	#6
Bruce Rawlings Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK Posts: 410	I have shot interviews with staff dressed in green corporate colours and now they have maroon/brown jackets! Tiffin filter now in place at all times and no problems. You do not know what is around the corner to stuff you. By the way the Tiffin filter thread will not hold filter ring for fixing on matte box so now have to get rails, all because Sony fitted the wrong filters. Last edited by Bruce Rawlings; January 23rd, 2010 at 10:55 AM. Reason: Added comment

January 24th, 2010, 10:53 PM	#12
John Hamlik Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Longview Washington Posts: 26	You mean something like this. Attached Thumbnails

January 25th, 2010, 05:40 AM	#13
Marcus Durham Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 693	A great illustration of the problem! __________________ Marcus Durham Media2u, Corporate Video Production For Your Business - http://www.media2u.co.uk

January 23rd, 2010, 05:57 AM	#2
Bruce Rawlings Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK Posts: 410	Do you not white balance with the filter in place to get around the problem?

January 23rd, 2010, 07:08 AM	#3
Steve Browne New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sunshine Coast, Aus Posts: 20	Yes but it still looks sort of murky to what it was before without the filter

January 23rd, 2010, 08:44 AM	#4
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	I use a UV filter on my EX3 and EX1R all the time except when using the mattebox with filters. I have never had a far red problem. I know I am lucky, I am not saying the problem does not exist. I have shot quite a few black suits, maybe it is the fact that I almost always use daylight lights HMI, fluorescent or lately LCD's. I think tungsten lights seem to aggravate the situation. What I do if I notice a problem in the shot, is white balance with some of the questionable black fabric in the frame with the white card (about 50/50). Having a good evaluation monitor helps spot the problem before it bites you hard.

January 23rd, 2010, 01:50 PM	#7
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	I have found that the T1 seems to muddy things somewhat. I am going to do more experimentation though. I will say that it is an absolutely essential filter to have in the toolkit first gen EX1's and EX3's, but I doubt I will keep mine on all the time.

January 24th, 2010, 08:01 AM	#8
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	I set out a black fabric tripod case & a black fleece on a black leather sofa. Lit with plenty of indirect daylight. The leather sofa was BLACK, the tripod case was somewhat red and the fleece was very reddish brown. No tungsten, no direct sunlight. Very blue indirect daylight. I shot a project outdoors on a cloudy day. Many, many people wearing various black clothing. Virtually all the black synthetics turned reddish brown. Looked like a UPS convention. This was before I received the T-1 filter. It's definitely not just tungsten. Since this problem came up with EX, I've been watching for this on TV. I've been seeing it a lot now that I'm looking for it. It isn't just EX cameras. I'm sure a lot of what I have seen was not shot with EX. It's less of a problem but it's still there.

January 24th, 2010, 06:54 PM	#10
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	I can just see the situation now, "Sorry old chap, but your taste in clothing is far too cheap to appear in front of my camera."

January 25th, 2010, 06:52 AM	#15
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	I could be wrong, but I felt that on the last shoot I did that the T1 made peoples faces a bit pasty. Again, it could have just been the light and I need to use it a bit more to be sure.