Tiffen T1 filter on all the time?

Piotr Wozniacki · February 13th, 2010, 03:27 PM

Unfortunately, a CT preset will not work by itself. You need to compensate each of the 3 channels differently, which only can be done balancing with AWB.

That wouldn't be much of a problem, except it's too easy to inadvertently knock the AWB push button during the shoot, and spoil the WB as the switch is not at the "preset" position.

Marcus Durham · February 13th, 2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Johnson

I have been leaving my T1 on all the time. I do a white balance, and the far red problem is fixed. However I still would like to make a preset WB in a Picture Profile for daylight sunny shooting. I haven't got around to it yet, but before using the T1 I had a PP with WB set to 5600 that worked great for general outside sunny use. Theoretically I should be able to go out on a sunny day, set a WB, note the temp, then make a PP with that temp as the preset - replacing the 5600 as a go-to temp for outdoor shots you don't have a chance to get a proper WB on.

Has anyone tried this? What temp did you come up with?

I don't believe this will work because as far as I can see the filter affects each colour differently and it depends on the conditions.

I would also refrain from keeping the filter on all the time. I was using it for the first time in anger last week and ended up far from impressed. It cured the problem I had for the shots in question, but even after a WB certain colours took on a green tinge and the image lacked a certain "punch" which took some work with Colorista to restore.

The T1 should only be on the camera when you have a specific problem IMO. Its solved my black problem fantastically but not only did the image take on the aforementioned characteristics, the light loss in the situation I was in was annoying.

Steve Kalle · February 13th, 2010, 05:55 PM

Piotr, is AWB different from ATW? If so, how does one AWB which compensates for each channel?

I recently got the T1 and notice a green cast, which is easily fixed in post.

Piotr Wozniacki · February 14th, 2010, 03:28 AM

Steve,

Very generally speaking: in ATW mode, your camera is *supposed* to track and adjust CT completely automatically for you (e.g. when following your subject, you are shooting inside with tungsten light and then you need to go outside for day light - and you cannot afford to stop shooting for taking manual WB). On some cameras this can actually work, but not on the EX cameras where it's pretty useless.

AWB is triggered manually by pressing the button while pointing the camera at what you want to appear as white (or shade of, hence a "white card" or "warm card").

Charles Newcomb · February 14th, 2010, 04:57 PM

I think this IR issue might not be specific to the Sony EX line. Last night I was watching the Chicken Buster episode of Dirty Jobs, and I noticed some of the dark blue/black uniform trousers had that reddish-brown tint. I was careful to note the shots where I saw it... all were from whatever shoulder-mounted HD cams the show is using. The trousers looked fine in the shots from the Z1Us.

Ed Kukla · February 16th, 2010, 06:16 AM

Watch History channels Pawn Star. They all wear black T-shirts. When they cut from shot to shot the shirts keep changing color from black to red/brown.
I've been seeing this more and more on teevee

Charles Newcomb · February 16th, 2010, 08:55 AM

I did watch that last night and noticed the same thing.

Ryan Avery · February 16th, 2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Chung

Ryan,

Will this new filter have a front thread this time? And when is it likely to ship? Was going to pull the trigger on a t1.

Dan

The new filter, officially called the Platinum 1/2 Stop IR filter, will have front threads in all common threaded sizes that are deep enough to screw-in other filters but does not cause vignetting on the EX Series cameras.

We will begin shipping these in about 3 to 4 weeks at the latest.

Part number for 77mm size: 68-063077
List Price: $250.00 USD

You can order from any Schneider dealer that sponsors this site as a special order and it will become a regularly sold item in the future.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Ryan Avery · February 16th, 2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kukla

Will the Schnieder filter come in a size to fit the Fujinon EX-3 wide angle lens? It appears to be a 95mm thread.

How soon?

Ed,

We have 95mm sizes available. 3 to 4 weeks. Please email me for a price quote and I will make sure to get you in contact with a dvinfo.net sponsor dealer to order the item.

Thanks,
Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Leonard Levy · February 16th, 2010, 11:32 PM

Ryan, will this filter have any issues with a reflective front surface like some of the other IR filters had? Is it an ordinary dye based filter?

Clark Peters · February 17th, 2010, 06:03 AM

Ryan- At $250, the Platinum filter is 3 times the price of the T1. What does the Platinum do the Tiffen doesn't?
Pete

Piotr Wozniacki · February 17th, 2010, 06:37 AM

This is my reservation, as well - for that price, I've got TWO T1s (77mm and 4x5.65").

Of course, thorough tests can still prove the Platinum 1/2 Stop IR filter is worth the price...

Ryan, any estimation for the 4x5.65" version?

Brent Ethington · February 17th, 2010, 09:33 AM

Ryan, for those of us that bought the T1 solution and found the results disappointing, how about a trade-in program? I for one would be really reluctant to buy yet another filter that promises to address the IR problem only to find that it too has unwanted side effects...

Brian Mills · February 17th, 2010, 10:58 AM

I wouldn't count on a trade-in program, seeing as the T1 is made by Tiffen and this new filter is by Schneider.

I have a T1 and yes, it fixes the reddish-black problem but does so at the expense of everything looking green (as many have pointed out). It's easier to CC out the green than the red/blacks, but I would be willing to pay more for a solution that works cleaner...

Marcus Durham · February 17th, 2010, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Ethington

Ryan, for those of us that bought the T1 solution and found the results disappointing, how about a trade-in program? I for one would be really reluctant to buy yet another filter that promises to address the IR problem only to find that it too has unwanted side effects...

Yes, after initially being pleased with the T1 I've now detected some green tinging on the fake tans of two of my subjects from the other week.

Rest of the image is correct, but the tans seem to just give a slight green tinge. Matt Davis (of this neighbourhood) tells me he's had problems with fake tans on camera without the IR issue. So I guess the T1 is just compounding that.

I'm now trying to dial this out but it does mean the rest of the image is going to be impacted.

I'd be interested in one of the new filters but given how long it took me to get a T1 I don't expect to see one for sale in the UK this side of July!

February 13th, 2010, 03:27 PM	#46
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Unfortunately, a CT preset will not work by itself. You need to compensate each of the 3 channels differently, which only can be done balancing with AWB. That wouldn't be much of a problem, except it's too easy to inadvertently knock the AWB push button during the shoot, and spoil the WB as the switch is not at the "preset" position. __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

February 14th, 2010, 03:28 AM	#49
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Steve, Very generally speaking: in ATW mode, your camera is supposed to track and adjust CT completely automatically for you (e.g. when following your subject, you are shooting inside with tungsten light and then you need to go outside for day light - and you cannot afford to stop shooting for taking manual WB). On some cameras this can actually work, but not on the EX cameras where it's pretty useless. AWB is triggered manually by pressing the button while pointing the camera at what you want to appear as white (or shade of, hence a "white card" or "warm card"). __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

February 17th, 2010, 06:37 AM	#57
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	This is my reservation, as well - for that price, I've got TWO T1s (77mm and 4x5.65"). Of course, thorough tests can still prove the Platinum 1/2 Stop IR filter is worth the price... Ryan, any estimation for the 4x5.65" version? __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

February 17th, 2010, 09:33 AM	#58
Brent Ethington Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: WA Posts: 180	T1 trade-in program? Ryan, for those of us that bought the T1 solution and found the results disappointing, how about a trade-in program? I for one would be really reluctant to buy yet another filter that promises to address the IR problem only to find that it too has unwanted side effects...

February 17th, 2010, 10:58 AM	#59
Brian Mills Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 126	I wouldn't count on a trade-in program, seeing as the T1 is made by Tiffen and this new filter is by Schneider. I have a T1 and yes, it fixes the reddish-black problem but does so at the expense of everything looking green (as many have pointed out). It's easier to CC out the green than the red/blacks, but I would be willing to pay more for a solution that works cleaner... __________________ Brian Mills, Videographer/Editor www.gordovideo.com

February 13th, 2010, 05:55 PM	#48
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Piotr, is AWB different from ATW? If so, how does one AWB which compensates for each channel? I recently got the T1 and notice a green cast, which is easily fixed in post.

February 14th, 2010, 04:57 PM	#50
Charles Newcomb Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Salida, Colorado Posts: 561	I think this IR issue might not be specific to the Sony EX line. Last night I was watching the Chicken Buster episode of Dirty Jobs, and I noticed some of the dark blue/black uniform trousers had that reddish-brown tint. I was careful to note the shots where I saw it... all were from whatever shoulder-mounted HD cams the show is using. The trousers looked fine in the shots from the Z1Us.

February 16th, 2010, 06:16 AM	#51
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	Watch History channels Pawn Star. They all wear black T-shirts. When they cut from shot to shot the shirts keep changing color from black to red/brown. I've been seeing this more and more on teevee

February 16th, 2010, 08:55 AM	#52
Charles Newcomb Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Salida, Colorado Posts: 561	I did watch that last night and noticed the same thing.

February 16th, 2010, 11:32 PM	#55
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Ryan, will this filter have any issues with a reflective front surface like some of the other IR filters had? Is it an ordinary dye based filter?

February 17th, 2010, 06:03 AM	#56
Clark Peters Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Manhattan, Kansas Posts: 123	Ryan- At $250, the Platinum filter is 3 times the price of the T1. What does the Platinum do the Tiffen doesn't? Pete