EX1r viewfinder calibration? at DVinfo.net

Thierry Humeau · January 23rd, 2010, 12:07 AM

The color viewfinder on the EX1r is quite an improvement over the EX1 but I found the default settings to crush the blacks way too much. I had to crank up the brightness level to +30 on my EX1r to get proper latitude and match the picture of the flipout LCD. Anyone seen this?

Marty Welk · January 23rd, 2010, 12:22 AM

yup, anything that looks good on its viewers will probably look pretty good on a LCD screen that people will be watcing it on. but to see what your doing, seems like some adjustment is nessiary.

to bad the color cant be turned up way high on the EVF , even though it can on the LCD.

Thierry Humeau · January 23rd, 2010, 01:28 AM

I am currious to see if the issue has to do with poor calibration of the viewfinder at the factory or just my camera's calibration. In any case, with the +30 brightness setting, the viewfinder looks very close to the LCD display. I very seldomly used the viewfinder on the EX1 but the one on the EX1r is so much better that I find myself using it all the time, especially when shooting outdoors.

Marty Welk · January 23rd, 2010, 01:45 AM

i thought it had to do with it being .45" in size :-) and only being able to do so much.
Also there is some plastic thing before the diopter , i assume it might be to keep crud from going in there, or even a filter to stop sun damages, it seems to mud stuff up a bit, and is scratchable.

also the bigger LCD screen seems to have some of the bestest light deflector coating on it so it works without getting reflections from other sources like your lights and the sun and all.
Somebody was certannly working stuff out to get longevity and useability, hey its LCD :-) they tried. But it too has a viewing angle the usual limitations of all LCDs.
knowing some stuff about LCDs the twisted light valve matrix (buzz words for the technology) takes much more light behind it to get light out front, so that would mean more power, more heat, and as always there is give and take and ramifications to it all. even ramifcations to higher resolution with TFT displays, with tighter pixels less light can bouce through, off the reflection in the back (for sun viewing), and stuff like that.

when you look in the Larger LCD screen, then shoot something, and put what you shot on a CRT and LCD monitor , do you think what you see in IT looks like what the customer gets? when it is on default?

Robert Young · January 23rd, 2010, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thierry Humeau

The color viewfinder on the EX1r is quite an improvement over the EX1 but I found the default settings to crush the blacks way too much. I had to crank up the brightness level to +30 on my EX1r to get proper latitude and match the picture of the flipout LCD. Anyone seen this?

Good call.
I had the VF brightness @ +10 and it looked O.K., but the color a bit desat compared to the LCD. At +30 it is much more similar to the LCD image. Quite acceptable!

Jim Stamos · January 24th, 2010, 12:04 AM

putting the viewfinder to +30, that isnt too bright, when you do this, is it the true image of what youre shooting?
if so, that would mean that the factory setting at 0 would mean the viewed footage wouldnt be right
am i clear on this?

Mark Bolding · January 24th, 2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Welk

when you look in the Larger LCD screen, then shoot something, and put what you shot on a CRT and LCD monitor , do you think what you see in IT looks like what the customer gets? when it is on default?

Marty touches on a point that I think some are missing here. No, I don't think the factory default is anywhere close to what it should be in either the viewfinder or the lcd. I am just getting into this with my new camera and monitor but the factory defaults seem quite dark to me from what I have shot and brought into FCP. This is a great reason to use zebras which if set properly should keep you out of too much trouble. While it is important to have the viewfinder match the lcd it is more important that there is unity throughout the system from camera to monitor to what ends up in your edit system of choice.

mb

Marty Welk · January 24th, 2010, 12:34 PM

I really like the histogram :-)

Robert Young · January 24th, 2010, 10:04 PM

I'm never confident that what I see in the LCD/VF is exactly how the clip will look in the editor. I always use zebras & histogram to confirm that I am in the ballpark.

Mark Bolding · January 25th, 2010, 06:31 AM

I really like waveforms

Michael Turano · January 27th, 2010, 09:20 PM

I have the same issue with my EX1R viewfinder and lcd. The brightness levels are incorrectly calibrated from the factory. I calibrated my camera using the tutorial on negative spaces: Negative Spaces - Ben Cain - Negative Spaces Blog - HD MONITOR CALIBRATION with SMPTE and ARIBBars. I raised the brightness level of my viewfinder to +50, and the lcd to +20. Yesterday I spoke with Sony Technical Services, and the tech was able to verify the problem using an in-house EX1R. A trouble report is being sent to Sony engineers in Japan. Using the zebras, the histogram or even a waveform monitor to compensate for poor monitor set-up is workable, but I think it is better to calibrate.

Piotr Wozniacki · January 28th, 2010, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Young

Good call.
I had the VF brightness @ +10 and it looked O.K., but the color a bit desat compared to the LCD. At +30 it is much more similar to the LCD image. Quite acceptable!

Strange - by adding luma, you're desaturating chroma (relatively, of course)...

Mark Bolding · January 28th, 2010, 08:00 AM

Using the zebras, the histogram or even a waveform monitor to compensate for poor monitor set-up is workable, but I think it is better to calibrate.[/QUOTE]

I'm with you on this one Michael and my setup numbers are very close to yours.

mb

Robert Young · January 28th, 2010, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Strange - by adding luma, you're desaturating chroma (relatively, of course)...

My thought too.
That's why it never occurred to me to pump the brightness any higher than +10.
I still think the VF is a poor second to the LCD (even though a lot better than the EX1), but at Br +30 it does look better.

Jim Stamos · February 2nd, 2010, 05:55 PM

Ok, so im clear, out of the box. the lcd and vf are darker than what the true image is. setting up cam with an external monitor shows the monitor picture brighter?
am surprised you have to turn up the brightness +20-+30, thats alot. cant believe sony would let them leave the factory this way. if one doesnt know this and shoots something their entire project will be blown out.
off topic, are there any good should brackets for the ex1r that are bulky. some that ive seen have handles in front/ vests/ and shafts that go against your chest. way too much to deal with . has to be some simple ones that mimic a shoulder mount camera. also some of the ones ive seen line up with the lcd just right but not for the viewfinder.
this is the main thing holding me up from geting the r. with the ergonomic mods to it, its still difficult to use handheld only if your holding it up to your eye and not going waste level which is much easier to handheld.

input appreciated

January 23rd, 2010, 12:07 AM	#1
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	EX1r viewfinder calibration? The color viewfinder on the EX1r is quite an improvement over the EX1 but I found the default settings to crush the blacks way too much. I had to crank up the brightness level to +30 on my EX1r to get proper latitude and match the picture of the flipout LCD. Anyone seen this? __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com

January 23rd, 2010, 12:22 AM	#2
Marty Welk Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: East Bay Cali Posts: 563	yup, anything that looks good on its viewers will probably look pretty good on a LCD screen that people will be watcing it on. but to see what your doing, seems like some adjustment is nessiary. to bad the color cant be turned up way high on the EVF , even though it can on the LCD. __________________ ----------------sig----------------- Re-learning everything all over again, one more time.

January 23rd, 2010, 01:28 AM	#3
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	I am currious to see if the issue has to do with poor calibration of the viewfinder at the factory or just my camera's calibration. In any case, with the +30 brightness setting, the viewfinder looks very close to the LCD display. I very seldomly used the viewfinder on the EX1 but the one on the EX1r is so much better that I find myself using it all the time, especially when shooting outdoors. __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com

January 23rd, 2010, 01:45 AM	#4
Marty Welk Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: East Bay Cali Posts: 563	i thought it had to do with it being .45" in size :-) and only being able to do so much. Also there is some plastic thing before the diopter , i assume it might be to keep crud from going in there, or even a filter to stop sun damages, it seems to mud stuff up a bit, and is scratchable. also the bigger LCD screen seems to have some of the bestest light deflector coating on it so it works without getting reflections from other sources like your lights and the sun and all. Somebody was certannly working stuff out to get longevity and useability, hey its LCD :-) they tried. But it too has a viewing angle the usual limitations of all LCDs. knowing some stuff about LCDs the twisted light valve matrix (buzz words for the technology) takes much more light behind it to get light out front, so that would mean more power, more heat, and as always there is give and take and ramifications to it all. even ramifcations to higher resolution with TFT displays, with tighter pixels less light can bouce through, off the reflection in the back (for sun viewing), and stuff like that. when you look in the Larger LCD screen, then shoot something, and put what you shot on a CRT and LCD monitor , do you think what you see in IT looks like what the customer gets? when it is on default? __________________ ----------------sig----------------- Re-learning everything all over again, one more time.

January 24th, 2010, 12:04 AM	#6
Jim Stamos Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 565	viewfinder brightness +30 putting the viewfinder to +30, that isnt too bright, when you do this, is it the true image of what youre shooting? if so, that would mean that the factory setting at 0 would mean the viewed footage wouldnt be right am i clear on this?

January 24th, 2010, 12:34 PM	#8
Marty Welk Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: East Bay Cali Posts: 563	I really like the histogram :-) __________________ ----------------sig----------------- Re-learning everything all over again, one more time.

January 24th, 2010, 10:04 PM	#9
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	I'm never confident that what I see in the LCD/VF is exactly how the clip will look in the editor. I always use zebras & histogram to confirm that I am in the ballpark. __________________ Bob

January 25th, 2010, 06:31 AM	#10
Mark Bolding Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 109	I really like waveforms

January 27th, 2010, 09:20 PM	#11
Michael Turano New Boot Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 12	I have the same issue with my EX1R viewfinder and lcd. The brightness levels are incorrectly calibrated from the factory. I calibrated my camera using the tutorial on negative spaces: Negative Spaces - Ben Cain - Negative Spaces Blog - HD MONITOR CALIBRATION with SMPTE and ARIBBars. I raised the brightness level of my viewfinder to +50, and the lcd to +20. Yesterday I spoke with Sony Technical Services, and the tech was able to verify the problem using an in-house EX1R. A trouble report is being sent to Sony engineers in Japan. Using the zebras, the histogram or even a waveform monitor to compensate for poor monitor set-up is workable, but I think it is better to calibrate.

January 28th, 2010, 08:00 AM	#13
Mark Bolding Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 109	Using the zebras, the histogram or even a waveform monitor to compensate for poor monitor set-up is workable, but I think it is better to calibrate.[/QUOTE] I'm with you on this one Michael and my setup numbers are very close to yours. mb

February 2nd, 2010, 05:55 PM	#15
Jim Stamos Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 565	viewfinder/lcd adjustment Ok, so im clear, out of the box. the lcd and vf are darker than what the true image is. setting up cam with an external monitor shows the monitor picture brighter? am surprised you have to turn up the brightness +20-+30, thats alot. cant believe sony would let them leave the factory this way. if one doesnt know this and shoots something their entire project will be blown out. off topic, are there any good should brackets for the ex1r that are bulky. some that ive seen have handles in front/ vests/ and shafts that go against your chest. way too much to deal with . has to be some simple ones that mimic a shoulder mount camera. also some of the ones ive seen line up with the lcd just right but not for the viewfinder. this is the main thing holding me up from geting the r. with the ergonomic mods to it, its still difficult to use handheld only if your holding it up to your eye and not going waste level which is much easier to handheld. input appreciated