Input date-time code thru firewire at DVinfo.net

Mark Refuss · January 15th, 2010, 01:01 PM

I need to burn permanent date time code to the final video images on my sony pmw-ex3. This is for legal video deposition work. According to the manual it appears that the only way to do this is thru the firewire input, but I am not able to find a date-time code generator with a firewire output. Any suggestions?

Olof Ekbergh · January 15th, 2010, 02:10 PM

If you just set TC to TOD and FreeRun, and user bits to Date. It is burned in. You can use an editor to burn it in on the DVD, tape or whatever you are delivering.

The EX3 also has TC in BNC connector and Genlock. So any TC generator or other camera even can send the EX3 TC. All Pro TC generators that I have seen have BNC connectors.

You can even output TC on all the monitor outs on the EX1.

Mark Refuss · January 17th, 2010, 10:11 PM

Thanks Olof,
There is much about time code which I do not yet understand. When I posed the question to Sony they advised that the camera did not have this capability and suggested I put a clock/date in front of the person being videoed in the deposition.
I thought that the TC in (BNC) connection was just for synchronization with other cameras. I actually need a continuous running date/time code on every frame of the deliverable media which will be DVD in most cases.
If I set TC as you suggested and it is truly burned into the video file (not just as metadata for display on the LCD or monitors) then it should be there when I burn a dvd from my editing program. I will experiment further..thanks much...Mark

Olof Ekbergh · January 18th, 2010, 07:33 AM

To be clear.

The timecode is recorded as metadata in the video file (on tape there actually was a separate track). Both the TC and User Bits are recorded.

What I am saying is set TC to time of day and it will run as free run (even while not recording). And set user bit to date.

This will then be a permanent part of the file.

Your NLE (FCP does this with TimeCode reader filter) can read this and "burn" it into the picture displayed on the video. You simply deliver this either on tape or make a DVD with that video. Many Pro monitors will also show TC from SDI input.

The EX3 has TC and genlock in so if you have an external TC source the EX3 can "lock" to that source. The EX1 does not.

There is a lot of good information on this both in manuals and on the WEB.

Kevin Spahr · January 18th, 2010, 04:01 PM

I believe for some legal videos, the date and time MUST to be part of the actual video, superimposed on the image at the same time as the recording is made - not done in post so it could not be altered. I don't think you can show both the date AND time as part of the "time code" on the EX display so using an external recorder is not an option either. I think you'll also find that the lawyers like to have an original master tape to file.

I would say the an EX is not a good choice for legal video work.

Trell Mitchell · January 18th, 2010, 06:13 PM

I believe you're correct Kevin. A Time & Date-stamp image should be superimposed in REAL-TIME within the camcorder during recordings. NOT from Meta-Data, or TC.
I know this may sound silly, but Attorneys can argue that post production work was done to manipulate his/her client's testimony during a deposition from the absence Date & Time-stamp
( For Example: creating a Time & Date-Stamp through post-production could be considered "Not Authentic" to the Court Reporter's Notarize Transcript).
A permanent Time & Date Stamp image should be "burned-in" the video.
Sony's DSR-250 & HVR-270 are capable of this feature.
I have no idea why Sony skipped this simple feature from the XDCAM Cameras ( EX-1, 3, PMW-350 & Optical disc Camcorders)
I could only hope that this feature will be available with a firmware upgrade.
Attorneys want the Time & Date Stamp image to look like the attachment I've included.

Olof Ekbergh · January 18th, 2010, 06:14 PM

I have delivered video for legal purposes, it is not a big part of my business, since the time of Betacam.

Even back then we used TC and UB that was part of the file (analog Beta Tape).

I would then make a VHS with burned in TC and used my M100 to add the date (UB).

I am not a lawyer (so I will not argue fine points here), but all the videos I have done this way have never been questioned. And they have been used in court.

There may be some new legal requirements, but I have not heard of them.

What is the difference between a tape with TC and UB and a file with TC and UB as part of a digital file? Frankly both can easily be faked.

The key is the witnessed written statement that goes with the video tape/file.

I would do whatever your client requires.

January 15th, 2010, 01:01 PM	#1
Mark Refuss Tourist Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Fayetteville, Ga Posts: 4	Input date-time code thru firewire I need to burn permanent date time code to the final video images on my sony pmw-ex3. This is for legal video deposition work. According to the manual it appears that the only way to do this is thru the firewire input, but I am not able to find a date-time code generator with a firewire output. Any suggestions?

January 17th, 2010, 10:11 PM	#3
Mark Refuss Tourist Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Fayetteville, Ga Posts: 4	Input date-time code thru firewire Thanks Olof, There is much about time code which I do not yet understand. When I posed the question to Sony they advised that the camera did not have this capability and suggested I put a clock/date in front of the person being videoed in the deposition. I thought that the TC in (BNC) connection was just for synchronization with other cameras. I actually need a continuous running date/time code on every frame of the deliverable media which will be DVD in most cases. If I set TC as you suggested and it is truly burned into the video file (not just as metadata for display on the LCD or monitors) then it should be there when I burn a dvd from my editing program. I will experiment further..thanks much...Mark

January 18th, 2010, 06:13 PM	#6
Trell Mitchell Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 37	I believe you're correct Kevin. A Time & Date-stamp image should be superimposed in REAL-TIME within the camcorder during recordings. NOT from Meta-Data, or TC. I know this may sound silly, but Attorneys can argue that post production work was done to manipulate his/her client's testimony during a deposition from the absence Date & Time-stamp ( For Example: creating a Time & Date-Stamp through post-production could be considered "Not Authentic" to the Court Reporter's Notarize Transcript). A permanent Time & Date Stamp image should be "burned-in" the video. Sony's DSR-250 & HVR-270 are capable of this feature. I have no idea why Sony skipped this simple feature from the XDCAM Cameras ( EX-1, 3, PMW-350 & Optical disc Camcorders) I could only hope that this feature will be available with a firmware upgrade. Attorneys want the Time & Date Stamp image to look like the attachment I've included. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Trell Mitchell; January 19th, 2010 at 06:10 PM.

January 15th, 2010, 02:10 PM	#2
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	If you just set TC to TOD and FreeRun, and user bits to Date. It is burned in. You can use an editor to burn it in on the DVD, tape or whatever you are delivering. The EX3 also has TC in BNC connector and Genlock. So any TC generator or other camera even can send the EX3 TC. All Pro TC generators that I have seen have BNC connectors. You can even output TC on all the monitor outs on the EX1.

January 18th, 2010, 07:33 AM	#4
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	To be clear. The timecode is recorded as metadata in the video file (on tape there actually was a separate track). Both the TC and User Bits are recorded. What I am saying is set TC to time of day and it will run as free run (even while not recording). And set user bit to date. This will then be a permanent part of the file. Your NLE (FCP does this with TimeCode reader filter) can read this and "burn" it into the picture displayed on the video. You simply deliver this either on tape or make a DVD with that video. Many Pro monitors will also show TC from SDI input. The EX3 has TC and genlock in so if you have an external TC source the EX3 can "lock" to that source. The EX1 does not. There is a lot of good information on this both in manuals and on the WEB.

January 18th, 2010, 04:01 PM	#5
Kevin Spahr Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Carlisle, PA Posts: 451	I believe for some legal videos, the date and time MUST to be part of the actual video, superimposed on the image at the same time as the recording is made - not done in post so it could not be altered. I don't think you can show both the date AND time as part of the "time code" on the EX display so using an external recorder is not an option either. I think you'll also find that the lawyers like to have an original master tape to file. I would say the an EX is not a good choice for legal video work.

January 18th, 2010, 06:14 PM	#7
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	I have delivered video for legal purposes, it is not a big part of my business, since the time of Betacam. Even back then we used TC and UB that was part of the file (analog Beta Tape). I would then make a VHS with burned in TC and used my M100 to add the date (UB). I am not a lawyer (so I will not argue fine points here), but all the videos I have done this way have never been questioned. And they have been used in court. There may be some new legal requirements, but I have not heard of them. What is the difference between a tape with TC and UB and a file with TC and UB as part of a digital file? Frankly both can easily be faked. The key is the witnessed written statement that goes with the video tape/file. I would do whatever your client requires.