720/60p Player Compatibility at DVinfo.net

William Urschel · January 2nd, 2010, 09:56 AM

Excuse my ignorance, and I'm embarrased to inquire about this - it must be written about someplace, but I haven't been able to find it.

For years I have been using the EX-1, after many hundreds of hours of experimentation, in the 1080/30p format, and with ANY action, light permitting, and not TOO much gain (never above 9 dB) at 1/120th shutter setting, usually attempting to keep the iris at 2.8 and above.

I recently tried out some test shots at 720/60p and then burned them to BD-RE - although
the perceived picture sharpness with little motion or no panning couldn't, of course, match similar 1080/30p shots, I was blown away with the 720/60p relative clarity (again, at shutter speed of 1/120th) on quick pans and high motion shots.

I use three BD machines to test my discs, a Sony Playstation 3 (which of course plays just about anything!), a Panasonic DMP-BD35, and an older Sony 300 series BD Player - all are updated with the latest player software. And
unless something is radically wrong, all three players play the discs with no issues when the discs are burned at 1080/30p.

But the experience is much different at 720/60p the Playstation 3 plays the discs flawlessly, always. The Panasonic is tempermental, sometimes playing the disc fine, and other times playing only the audio, with a black screen for the video. The older Sony 300 Series BD Player, however, will NEVER accept the disc, indicating that the format is not supported. I assume, therefore, that this format is not acceptable for BDs for my consumer/customers, in any reliable, trustworthy way.

I am very attracted to the beauty of the 720/60p production with substantial movement, but of course if such productions will not be playable on the BD players of almost all of my customers, it is dead in the water.

I would be most appreciative about the experience of any of you with 720/60p, and if you have any suggestions as to my dilemma! By the way, I am NOT interested, under any circumstances, in shooting and producing 720/30p or 720/24p

Craig Seeman · January 2nd, 2010, 01:35 PM

Blu-ray Disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Somehow I think that's wrong though.

This is as I know it
1080p24, 1080i60/i50, 720p60/p50, 720p24 for Blu-ray

Gavin Rawlings · January 2nd, 2010, 05:42 PM

I'm actually interested in this to. I've been looking around and have not found a definite answer. It would be very handy if Blu-Ray players could play back 50/60P....

William Urschel · January 4th, 2010, 06:27 AM

In view of the normally very responsive attention given to many topics on this forum, I'm just really suprised at the lack of response here! Is it because no one else has ANY issues in trying to play back 720/60p on a wide variety of sets? If so, I still would really appreciate a response. It is evident that many use 720/60p for the very reasons cited, namely the relatively great definition with fast moving pans or objects! But can you then play them????????

Khoi Pham · January 4th, 2010, 08:58 AM

BD-RE is not as compatible as BD-R so can you try to burn the same disc image to BD-R and see if it would play? and what authoring program are you using?

William Urschel · January 5th, 2010, 07:33 AM

Khoi!

Am using PPCS4, AMECS4, EncoreCS4 - have burned all kinds of BD-RE discs (Verbatim ONLY) in past using CS3 apps and CS4, with (astonishingly) never a problem on the three players mentioned, when have used BD-RE burned 1080/30p.

The Sony 300 Player is an old machine by the standards of what transpires so rapidly! And most of my customers have much newer machines. I will try the suggestion of BD-R and see if that is reliable playback on the Panasonic - if so, I'll go with that - don't expect the old Sony, however, to respond under any conditions.

Khoi, thanks for your response - you've been kind enough to respond quite helpfully to some of the prior inquiry posts of mine, and it's much appreciated!

Bill

Mitchell Lewis · January 5th, 2010, 12:39 PM

Bill, You might already know this, but....720 60p and 1080 60i are very similar in their overall look. If you want the higher resolution and the same smooth look to your pans, try 1080 60i. Personally though, I don't like interlaced as you have to deinterlace 1080i for use on the web. So your use of 720 60p is a good choice. Someday we'll be able to shoot/view 1080 60p. :)

Markus Klatt · January 6th, 2010, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Urschel

Am using PPCS4, AMECS4, EncoreCS4 - have burned all kinds of BD-RE discs (Verbatim ONLY) in past using CS3 apps and CS4, with (astonishingly) never a problem on the three players mentioned, when have used BD-RE burned 1080/30p.

I am using the same software but hopefully you've ment 1080/30i (60i). 1080/30p is not included in the BD spec so even if it runs its not a valid format.

William Urschel · January 6th, 2010, 06:17 AM

Markus - of course you are quite right about 1080/30p not being in the spec, but MANY others and I here burn everything or the majority of our discs in that format with nary a problem, so long as our software (etc.) is performing properly! And Mitchell, thanks for your comment - I really do like shooting action scenes in 1080/60i despite the loss of vertical resolution, but I unreservedly now prefer 1080/30p, as on my apps it provides a much better down rez for 480/30p (yes, I know that's not in the spec either, for all you nay sayers out there!) than 1080/60i - far fewer jaggies and better sharpness.

January 2nd, 2010, 09:56 AM	#1
William Urschel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bee Cave, Texas Posts: 151	720/60p Player Compatibility Excuse my ignorance, and I'm embarrased to inquire about this - it must be written about someplace, but I haven't been able to find it. For years I have been using the EX-1, after many hundreds of hours of experimentation, in the 1080/30p format, and with ANY action, light permitting, and not TOO much gain (never above 9 dB) at 1/120th shutter setting, usually attempting to keep the iris at 2.8 and above. I recently tried out some test shots at 720/60p and then burned them to BD-RE - although the perceived picture sharpness with little motion or no panning couldn't, of course, match similar 1080/30p shots, I was blown away with the 720/60p relative clarity (again, at shutter speed of 1/120th) on quick pans and high motion shots. I use three BD machines to test my discs, a Sony Playstation 3 (which of course plays just about anything!), a Panasonic DMP-BD35, and an older Sony 300 series BD Player - all are updated with the latest player software. And unless something is radically wrong, all three players play the discs with no issues when the discs are burned at 1080/30p. But the experience is much different at 720/60p the Playstation 3 plays the discs flawlessly, always. The Panasonic is tempermental, sometimes playing the disc fine, and other times playing only the audio, with a black screen for the video. The older Sony 300 Series BD Player, however, will NEVER accept the disc, indicating that the format is not supported. I assume, therefore, that this format is not acceptable for BDs for my consumer/customers, in any reliable, trustworthy way. I am very attracted to the beauty of the 720/60p production with substantial movement, but of course if such productions will not be playable on the BD players of almost all of my customers, it is dead in the water. I would be most appreciative about the experience of any of you with 720/60p, and if you have any suggestions as to my dilemma! By the way, I am NOT interested, under any circumstances, in shooting and producing 720/30p or 720/24p

January 4th, 2010, 06:27 AM	#4
William Urschel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bee Cave, Texas Posts: 151	Hello? In view of the normally very responsive attention given to many topics on this forum, I'm just really suprised at the lack of response here! Is it because no one else has ANY issues in trying to play back 720/60p on a wide variety of sets? If so, I still would really appreciate a response. It is evident that many use 720/60p for the very reasons cited, namely the relatively great definition with fast moving pans or objects! But can you then play them????????

January 4th, 2010, 08:58 AM	#5
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	BD-RE is not as compatible as BD-R so can you try to burn the same disc image to BD-R and see if it would play? and what authoring program are you using? __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

January 5th, 2010, 12:39 PM	#7
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Bill, You might already know this, but....720 60p and 1080 60i are very similar in their overall look. If you want the higher resolution and the same smooth look to your pans, try 1080 60i. Personally though, I don't like interlaced as you have to deinterlace 1080i for use on the web. So your use of 720 60p is a good choice. Someday we'll be able to shoot/view 1080 60p. :) __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

January 2nd, 2010, 01:35 PM	#2
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Blu-ray Disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Somehow I think that's wrong though. This is as I know it 1080p24, 1080i60/i50, 720p60/p50, 720p24 for Blu-ray

January 2nd, 2010, 05:42 PM	#3
Gavin Rawlings Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia Posts: 40	I'm actually interested in this to. I've been looking around and have not found a definite answer. It would be very handy if Blu-Ray players could play back 50/60P....

January 5th, 2010, 07:33 AM	#6
William Urschel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bee Cave, Texas Posts: 151	Khoi! Am using PPCS4, AMECS4, EncoreCS4 - have burned all kinds of BD-RE discs (Verbatim ONLY) in past using CS3 apps and CS4, with (astonishingly) never a problem on the three players mentioned, when have used BD-RE burned 1080/30p. The Sony 300 Player is an old machine by the standards of what transpires so rapidly! And most of my customers have much newer machines. I will try the suggestion of BD-R and see if that is reliable playback on the Panasonic - if so, I'll go with that - don't expect the old Sony, however, to respond under any conditions. Khoi, thanks for your response - you've been kind enough to respond quite helpfully to some of the prior inquiry posts of mine, and it's much appreciated! Bill

January 6th, 2010, 06:17 AM	#9
William Urschel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bee Cave, Texas Posts: 151	Markus - of course you are quite right about 1080/30p not being in the spec, but MANY others and I here burn everything or the majority of our discs in that format with nary a problem, so long as our software (etc.) is performing properly! And Mitchell, thanks for your comment - I really do like shooting action scenes in 1080/60i despite the loss of vertical resolution, but I unreservedly now prefer 1080/30p, as on my apps it provides a much better down rez for 480/30p (yes, I know that's not in the spec either, for all you nay sayers out there!) than 1080/60i - far fewer jaggies and better sharpness.