Another Media Error problem with MxR & Transcend 16GB SDHGC Class 6 combo at DVinfo.net

Michael B. McGee · December 20th, 2009, 07:57 PM

ok, so i've waited well over a year to purchase this lesser expensive media for my EX1. i waited, like most people, to see if the combos were reliable and dependable. after reading many posts/conversations on this forum, i decided that the majority of people were having great success with these combo units and that now was the time for me to join the party. i just sold 2-8GB cards, a 16GB Sony SxS card and replaced them with a "trial-run" MxR:Transcend combo unit. i immediately got a Media Error message, even though i'm still able to record more clips. i've read dozens if not hundreds of posts about these combos and never knew you could continue recording after receiving a Media Error. the main nuisance is that the Media Error warning still remains on the LCD/VF screen until you restore the media. i haven't tested the clips in Clip Browser, but they seem to playback fine in camera up until the point where the error occurred.

now my question is: When one receives a Media Error warning, is it typically due to a faulty

A) SDHC card (Transcend 16GB Class 6)

or

B) MxR ExpressCard reader

unfortunately, i don't have any other SDHC cards to test, but i'd like to know where to start my trouble-shooting?

thanks for any help you may have for me,
Mike

Craig Seeman · December 20th, 2009, 11:26 PM

I think too many Transcend cards are not to the specs needed for EX use. I'd suggest getting ATP ProMax. I'm not sure why MxR is selling it in combination with Transcend these days.

Basically I'd blame the SDHC card.

Michael B. McGee · December 21st, 2009, 12:00 AM

thanks Craig. i appreciate your response especially since I've seen your comments and involvement on other threads with this subject matter.

Lance Librandi · December 21st, 2009, 01:17 AM

Hi Michael,
I would treat these cards with a great deal of caution I purchased e-LCR and MxM with 32gb Sandisk and ATP Pro memory and both gave media errors and fail have failed to format without ejecting the media or rebooting the camera by turning it off and then back on.
I have never had that problem with SxS as much as I do not like the price of SxS it's the only media I would trust on paid jobs.

Michael B. McGee · December 21st, 2009, 01:47 AM

thanks Lance. i know SxS is the most reliable, but i made a business "cardinal sin" by choosing to sell all of my SxS cards before i tested out the SDHC alternatives. i actually sold the SxS cards before i paid for the sdhc combos. i did however buy a Sandisk SxS 8GB from a well known retailer in New York in order to still be able to over-crank to 60fps. until i can find a reliable sdhc combo i might have to use my new SxS card more often than i had originally planned. I am very curious about these ATP ProMax cards. HoodMan cards seem very dependable, but my whole point was to save money on media. so, if need be, i'll buy a Hoodman as a last resort option.

Marcus Durham · December 21st, 2009, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael B. McGee

now my question is: When one receives a Media Error warning, is it typically due to a faulty

It is due to the Transcend cards. They are to be avoided as the Media Error warnings are but just one symptom of a wider problem with their manufacture that could result in data loss.

Do yourself a favour, ditch the Transcends and try the ATP Pro Max 16gb cards instead.

Bruce Schultz · December 21st, 2009, 03:24 PM

It's been my direct experience that the SDHC cards for the most part write data slower (how much I don't know) than SxS cards. Many of the 'media restore' errors that I have gotten are due to not waiting long enough for the card to write the previous shot before hitting the record button again. You really need to pay attention to the red record light near the card door, however, 'media restore' errors still happen even when you don't trigger a record too early. For the most part, the higher priced SDHC cards like Promax and SanDisk (the other S in SxS) Extreme work pretty reliably, but are still not a perfect SxS replacement in any environment..

Gints Klimanis · December 21st, 2009, 03:32 PM

Marcus Durham Quote: "Do yourself a favour, ditch the Transcends and try the ATP Pro Max 16gb cards instead. "

I have had one problem with a Sandisk Extreme III 30MB/sec 16GB card as well as a Transcend. While your enthusiasm is delicious, I have doubts that these Media Restore errors are caused by the card itself and probably more by EX1 playing "catchup" with file writing when recording has stopped. SxS cards have a faster read/write speed, and that is probably the main reason we see fewer complaints with them. The file operation of the EX1 during Start/Stop record, recording across cards in both slots (when one fills up) and even power downs are problem. I suspect that faster cards may alleviate the problem as the card finishes writing sooner. Unfortunately, I know of no SDHC cards faster than class 10 at the present time. CF cards just made a leap in capacity and speed to 60 and 90 MBytes/second.

Marcus Durham · December 21st, 2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis

Marcus Durham Quote: "Do yourself a favour, ditch the Transcends and try the ATP Pro Max 16gb cards instead. "

I have had one problem with a Sandisk Extreme III 30MB/sec 16GB card as well as a Transcend. While your enthusiasm is delicious, I have doubts that these Media Restore errors are caused by the card itself and probably more by EX1 playing "catchup" with file writing when recording has stopped. SxS cards have a faster read/write speed, and that is probably the main reason we see fewer complaints with them. The file operation of the EX1 during Start/Stop record, recording across cards in both slots (when one fills up) and even power downs are problem. I suspect that faster cards may alleviate the problem as the card finishes writing sooner. Unfortunately, I know of no SDHC cards faster than class 10 at the present time. CF cards just made a leap in capacity and speed to 60 and 90 MBytes/second.

Except, as I've noted, there appears to be more than one factor at play here. We've been fed the line for a long time that the cards were the limiting factor when, as I discovered recently, it could be the adaptors as well.

In an MxM lockable I could overcrank an ATP at 48fps for as long as I wanted. I could (and did) fill a card. Tried the same in an MxR and it quit after about 16 seconds realtime recording. So, not all adaptors are born equal.

The difference with the "bad" Transcends is that regardless of what adaptor you put them in, they struggle to overcrank beyond 40fps for any length of time. In fact closer to 35fps if you want to fill a card. The trend seems to be that these cards are just slower in general and can hold a red light for 8-10 seconds.

For me a card that is struggling to achieve 40 fps simply doesn't have enough headroom. I suspect you are correct that the EX1 writes in bursts, hence why these slow cards get caught out.

People can and do press record before they should. When I used to get this with a Transcend I started to think I was going mad and that I hadn't waited for the green light. It was only after it happened several times that I could be sure that even if the camera hadn't been rolling for 10 minutes I'd still get that error. The only media restores I've had since shooting onto ATP have been those I have forced during testing. Nothing in the field.

Michael B. McGee · December 21st, 2009, 04:13 PM

thanks for replying gentlemen, but i am getting Media Error warnings during recording not just in between or immediately after stopping. just a note to add to this discussion, i would get Media Restore warnings with my old SxS cards usually upon inserting into one of the record slots.

i just returned my "red label/stripe" Transcend card for these "blue label/stripe" cards.
Amazon.com: Transcend 16 GB SDHC Class 6 Flash Memory Card TS16GSDHC6E [Amazon Frustration-Free Packaging]: Electronics

if they don't work, then i'll have to try either one of these options.
1) Sandisk Ultra II Class 4
2) Sandisk Extreme III
3) ATP ProMax
4) Hoodman RAW

i'll probably test in that order because if my memory serves me correctly the Ultra II cards are the cheapest with the Hoodman cards(out of stock on most websites) being the most expensive. and yes, unfortunately, i do have time to wait until i find the right, error free, cards.

Happy Holidays!!!

Marcus Durham · December 21st, 2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael B. McGee

i would get Media Restore warnings with my old SxS cards usually upon inserting into one of the record slots.

That sounds worrying. Can you borrow a SxS card from someone that is "known good" to test?

If a card that works fine for someone else produces an error in your camera I'd be inclined to send the camera back to Sony,

But for heavens sake when speaking to Sony only mention the SxS causing errors. SDHC will just cloud the issue.

Craig Seeman · December 21st, 2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Durham

E
In an MxM lockable I could overcrank an ATP at 48fps for as long as I wanted. I could (and did) fill a card. Tried the same in an MxR and it quit after about 16 seconds realtime recording. So, not all adaptors are born equal.

At one time the MxR and MxM were the same design coming from the same manufacturer. I've heard that's no longer the case and I've heard from others as well that MxM and ATP have seen the same results as you.

Gints Klimanis · December 21st, 2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael B. McGee

i just returned my "red label/stripe" Transcend card for these "blue label/stripe" cards.
Amazon.com: Transcend 16 GB SDHC Class 6 Flash Memory Card TS16GSDHC6E [Amazon Frustration-Free Packaging]: Electronics

Those are known as the "green stripe" cards. I have two. Hoodman is reselling cards, but there aren't any better than Sandisk Extreme III 30 MB/sec.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael B. McGee

"1) Sandisk Ultra II Class 4"

Given that a lot of the problems with the SDHC cards seems related to card speed, I'd put your money in the fastest available. That would rule out the slower Ultra II.

Zsolt Gordos · December 27th, 2009, 04:00 AM

This probably will never end. I remember the time more than a year ago when the SDHC card thing has started.
After endless threads there was some sort of conclusion favoring Kensington reader with Transcend and Sandisk Ultra II cards and particularly warning about the Sandisk Extreme cards which were faster by specs yet they failed to work in the cameras.
Now I see the opposite, Transcend is considered lousy and Sandisk is favored, nobody talking about the Kensington readers since they stick out from the slots but even the specific design MxM and MxR cards seem to be less reliable than many believes.

So if someone enters this game will receive a chaotic flood of information, unstructured. It would be great to have a summary, a poll or dashboard where users could input their experience with cards, readers, combination in a well structured design which would even give a % of experienced failure or success.
Otherwise one have to browse threads for ages and may still end up with false information (e.g. a reported failure was due to human error not the card or reader, but the user failed to admit or communicated 5 pages later where the reader has never reached due to falling asleep beforehand).

The other such thing is the picture profiles section. If I wont need PP-s soon, I would find amusing whats going on there. From little personal fights to "scientific" explanations you can find anything. If you want to know what to do in low light or when shooting fireworks, or any pragmatic info for practical daily use, don't go there.

Craig Seeman · December 27th, 2009, 08:29 AM

Zsolt, the challenge with SDHC and adaptors is that manufacturing processes have changed and do change over time. It's not that people are "all over the place" in their thinking. Transcend and Sandisk have changed the way they make the cards. Kensington has changed the way they make the adaptors. MxR and MxM have changed as well.

These days it seems MxM and ATP ProMax cards are the most reliable combination. That may change.

With Picture Profiles it's a combination of science and art. Test charts and scopes can be used to measure the science. The art is subjective though. The workflow (Color grading and compositing in post) also influences.

December 20th, 2009, 07:57 PM	#1
Michael B. McGee Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 318	Another Media Error problem with MxR & Transcend 16GB SDHGC Class 6 combo ok, so i've waited well over a year to purchase this lesser expensive media for my EX1. i waited, like most people, to see if the combos were reliable and dependable. after reading many posts/conversations on this forum, i decided that the majority of people were having great success with these combo units and that now was the time for me to join the party. i just sold 2-8GB cards, a 16GB Sony SxS card and replaced them with a "trial-run" MxR:Transcend combo unit. i immediately got a Media Error message, even though i'm still able to record more clips. i've read dozens if not hundreds of posts about these combos and never knew you could continue recording after receiving a Media Error. the main nuisance is that the Media Error warning still remains on the LCD/VF screen until you restore the media. i haven't tested the clips in Clip Browser, but they seem to playback fine in camera up until the point where the error occurred. now my question is: When one receives a Media Error warning, is it typically due to a faulty A) SDHC card (Transcend 16GB Class 6) or B) MxR ExpressCard reader unfortunately, i don't have any other SDHC cards to test, but i'd like to know where to start my trouble-shooting? thanks for any help you may have for me, Mike

December 27th, 2009, 04:00 AM	#14
Zsolt Gordos Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Budapest, Hungary Posts: 414	This probably will never end. I remember the time more than a year ago when the SDHC card thing has started. After endless threads there was some sort of conclusion favoring Kensington reader with Transcend and Sandisk Ultra II cards and particularly warning about the Sandisk Extreme cards which were faster by specs yet they failed to work in the cameras. Now I see the opposite, Transcend is considered lousy and Sandisk is favored, nobody talking about the Kensington readers since they stick out from the slots but even the specific design MxM and MxR cards seem to be less reliable than many believes. So if someone enters this game will receive a chaotic flood of information, unstructured. It would be great to have a summary, a poll or dashboard where users could input their experience with cards, readers, combination in a well structured design which would even give a % of experienced failure or success. Otherwise one have to browse threads for ages and may still end up with false information (e.g. a reported failure was due to human error not the card or reader, but the user failed to admit or communicated 5 pages later where the reader has never reached due to falling asleep beforehand). The other such thing is the picture profiles section. If I wont need PP-s soon, I would find amusing whats going on there. From little personal fights to "scientific" explanations you can find anything. If you want to know what to do in low light or when shooting fireworks, or any pragmatic info for practical daily use, don't go there. __________________ Sony XDCAM EX1r, Canon 5DMkII, Røde NTG2, Røde NT1000, Røde Stereo Videomic, Sachtler DV6 SB on Gitzo 1325V, Steadicam Merlin, Omnitracker, Hackintosh 3.5Ghz Quad 8Gb RAM

December 20th, 2009, 11:26 PM	#2
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	I think too many Transcend cards are not to the specs needed for EX use. I'd suggest getting ATP ProMax. I'm not sure why MxR is selling it in combination with Transcend these days. Basically I'd blame the SDHC card.

December 21st, 2009, 12:00 AM	#3
Michael B. McGee Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 318	thanks Craig. i appreciate your response especially since I've seen your comments and involvement on other threads with this subject matter.

December 21st, 2009, 01:17 AM	#4
Lance Librandi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 374	Hi Michael, I would treat these cards with a great deal of caution I purchased e-LCR and MxM with 32gb Sandisk and ATP Pro memory and both gave media errors and fail have failed to format without ejecting the media or rebooting the camera by turning it off and then back on. I have never had that problem with SxS as much as I do not like the price of SxS it's the only media I would trust on paid jobs.

December 21st, 2009, 01:47 AM	#5
Michael B. McGee Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 318	thanks Lance. i know SxS is the most reliable, but i made a business "cardinal sin" by choosing to sell all of my SxS cards before i tested out the SDHC alternatives. i actually sold the SxS cards before i paid for the sdhc combos. i did however buy a Sandisk SxS 8GB from a well known retailer in New York in order to still be able to over-crank to 60fps. until i can find a reliable sdhc combo i might have to use my new SxS card more often than i had originally planned. I am very curious about these ATP ProMax cards. HoodMan cards seem very dependable, but my whole point was to save money on media. so, if need be, i'll buy a Hoodman as a last resort option.

December 21st, 2009, 03:24 PM	#7
Bruce Schultz Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Malibu, CA Posts: 480	It's been my direct experience that the SDHC cards for the most part write data slower (how much I don't know) than SxS cards. Many of the 'media restore' errors that I have gotten are due to not waiting long enough for the card to write the previous shot before hitting the record button again. You really need to pay attention to the red record light near the card door, however, 'media restore' errors still happen even when you don't trigger a record too early. For the most part, the higher priced SDHC cards like Promax and SanDisk (the other S in SxS) Extreme work pretty reliably, but are still not a perfect SxS replacement in any environment..

December 21st, 2009, 03:32 PM	#8
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Marcus Durham Quote: "Do yourself a favour, ditch the Transcends and try the ATP Pro Max 16gb cards instead. " I have had one problem with a Sandisk Extreme III 30MB/sec 16GB card as well as a Transcend. While your enthusiasm is delicious, I have doubts that these Media Restore errors are caused by the card itself and probably more by EX1 playing "catchup" with file writing when recording has stopped. SxS cards have a faster read/write speed, and that is probably the main reason we see fewer complaints with them. The file operation of the EX1 during Start/Stop record, recording across cards in both slots (when one fills up) and even power downs are problem. I suspect that faster cards may alleviate the problem as the card finishes writing sooner. Unfortunately, I know of no SDHC cards faster than class 10 at the present time. CF cards just made a leap in capacity and speed to 60 and 90 MBytes/second.

December 21st, 2009, 04:13 PM	#10
Michael B. McGee Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 318	thanks for replying gentlemen, but i am getting Media Error warnings during recording not just in between or immediately after stopping. just a note to add to this discussion, i would get Media Restore warnings with my old SxS cards usually upon inserting into one of the record slots. i just returned my "red label/stripe" Transcend card for these "blue label/stripe" cards. Amazon.com: Transcend 16 GB SDHC Class 6 Flash Memory Card TS16GSDHC6E [Amazon Frustration-Free Packaging]: Electronics if they don't work, then i'll have to try either one of these options. 1) Sandisk Ultra II Class 4 2) Sandisk Extreme III 3) ATP ProMax 4) Hoodman RAW i'll probably test in that order because if my memory serves me correctly the Ultra II cards are the cheapest with the Hoodman cards(out of stock on most websites) being the most expensive. and yes, unfortunately, i do have time to wait until i find the right, error free, cards. Happy Holidays!!!

December 27th, 2009, 08:29 AM	#15
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Zsolt, the challenge with SDHC and adaptors is that manufacturing processes have changed and do change over time. It's not that people are "all over the place" in their thinking. Transcend and Sandisk have changed the way they make the cards. Kensington has changed the way they make the adaptors. MxR and MxM have changed as well. These days it seems MxM and ATP ProMax cards are the most reliable combination. That may change. With Picture Profiles it's a combination of science and art. Test charts and scopes can be used to measure the science. The art is subjective though. The workflow (Color grading and compositing in post) also influences.