Rippling in footage? at DVinfo.net

Rodney Minott · November 4th, 2009, 10:21 PM

I’ve noticed some rippling in footage I just shot on my EX3. The video looks fine and plays back well after transferring using Clip Browser and then Sony XDCAM transfer. However, when I've imported clips into Final Cut Pro V. 7.0 I can see a distinct rippling that is horizontal across the image. Again, when I play the footage as a QuickTime clip after transferring it into a storage folder using Sony XDCAM transfer the video looks fine. It’s only after I’ve transferred it into Final Cut Pro that I've noticed the rippling effect. Has anyone experienced this, and if so what is the cause? What needs to be done to prevent it?
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Sony EX3, Mac Pro 2x 2.66 GHz Quad Core, Snow Leopard 10.6.1, Final Cut Pro V. 7.0, 2x 32GB Transcend SDHC

Vincent Oliver · November 5th, 2009, 12:15 AM

It sounds like a frequency clash between your software output and your monitor display

Rodney Minott · November 5th, 2009, 01:21 AM

Thanks, Vincent. I'm not sure if I really understand what you mean, but in any case is there anything I can do to correct/fix it so that there's no clash?

Vincent Oliver · November 5th, 2009, 02:52 AM

Sorry I posted that last message in haste just before taking my daughter to school.

Thinking about your problem, I would suspect it is the way Final Cut previews your footage. Generally previews are not displayed at full resolution, they tend to be proxy previews. It sounds like your final delivery is OK so realy you don't have anything to worry about. In Premiere Pro we have a choice of how we want to display our clips, High Resolution, Auto or Low Resolution. I am sure you must have someting similar in Final Cut

Kevin Cates · November 5th, 2009, 04:26 AM

Could you further describe 'ripple'. Can you post a clip or a still demonstrating the problem?

Olof Ekbergh · November 5th, 2009, 05:54 AM

Does this appear on an external NTSC/PAL monitor or only in the FCP preview window?

I see all kinds of weird stuff when previewing on computer monitor. Only an external NTSC/PAL monitor tells the truth about your footage.

If you are compressing for final delivery for computer view only, then it should look good. But only after compressing to the final QT/Flash or whatever format.

XDcam is pretty heavy to decode especially in a program with as much overhead as FCP.

I use AJA Kona and Matrox MX02 hardware along with HD-SDI monitors for previewing. You also need fast HD's, preferably raided to what is really going on.

Ross Herewini · November 5th, 2009, 06:32 AM

I have seen that same effect a couple of times, and I am using Edius.

I only notice it when I am previewing the material at high speed, then it becomes obvious.

I don't get it on the external reference monitor though, only on the computer screen.

It occured to me that there was neon lighting in the room on one occasion, and perhaps the timing was off between the camera and the lighting, like a very slow motion half shutter we get with the a flash unit going off.

Have you tried putting it out to DVD and play it back to see if it still a problem? It may be nothing to worry about.

William Urschel · November 5th, 2009, 08:10 AM

I also was most distressed to see the "ripple effect" (and as to cause, I have NO idea!) when I saw it in the Premiere Pro CS3 timeline playback - using Cineform Prospect 4k plug in, with some CRUCIAL shots on an event videography production. So here is the same problem on a PC platform with Adobe programs instead of FCP on Apple - leads one to think its the camera, doesn't it? The "ripple" (if you see it, you know it!) was exhibited as horizontal waves proceeding from top to bottom of the 16x9 1920x1080 30p production, on several shots. I spent a lot of time examining camera setting, edit settings, etc., and could not discern any pattern suggesting why the problem showed up on a few shots, and none others!

In any event, because a couple of shots exhibiting ripple were really essential, I included them in the final production, and after going through the various steps to provide a BD-R (using AME CS-4 and Encore CS4), the issue did not appear! This parellels the experience of one other user, as reported above. Soooo, in future, I will proceed as if the problem does not exist. Because in the final product, it doesn't! I'd follow the suggestion already given above, and produce a test BD orDVD, and see what happens.

Rodney Minott · November 5th, 2009, 09:16 AM

Thanks all so much for the great input. I haven't tested the footage yet by outputting to a DVD. Will do that later today to find out what happens. As others have mentioned, I suspect it's not going to show up in a final delivery. I'll keep testing and will give an update later on. Thanks again.

Paul Gale · November 6th, 2009, 04:41 AM

I've seen this kind of issue many times. In my experience it's entirely down to the playback ability (or not) of the graphics card. I see something that may be similar on my current edit PC setup. Often known as 'tearing'. I suspect you won't see it on a production monitor or DVD playback on a TV set.

Rodney Minott · November 6th, 2009, 07:39 AM

I did a test by outputting to a DVD yesterday ... and the rippling didn't show up, thankfully. Also not showing up on my output production monitor. So looks like it's benign.

November 4th, 2009, 10:21 PM	#1
Rodney Minott Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 35	Rippling in footage? I’ve noticed some rippling in footage I just shot on my EX3. The video looks fine and plays back well after transferring using Clip Browser and then Sony XDCAM transfer. However, when I've imported clips into Final Cut Pro V. 7.0 I can see a distinct rippling that is horizontal across the image. Again, when I play the footage as a QuickTime clip after transferring it into a storage folder using Sony XDCAM transfer the video looks fine. It’s only after I’ve transferred it into Final Cut Pro that I've noticed the rippling effect. Has anyone experienced this, and if so what is the cause? What needs to be done to prevent it? ------------------- Sony EX3, Mac Pro 2x 2.66 GHz Quad Core, Snow Leopard 10.6.1, Final Cut Pro V. 7.0, 2x 32GB Transcend SDHC

November 5th, 2009, 12:15 AM	#2
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	It sounds like a frequency clash between your software output and your monitor display __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

November 5th, 2009, 02:52 AM	#4
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	Sorry I posted that last message in haste just before taking my daughter to school. Thinking about your problem, I would suspect it is the way Final Cut previews your footage. Generally previews are not displayed at full resolution, they tend to be proxy previews. It sounds like your final delivery is OK so realy you don't have anything to worry about. In Premiere Pro we have a choice of how we want to display our clips, High Resolution, Auto or Low Resolution. I am sure you must have someting similar in Final Cut __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

November 5th, 2009, 06:32 AM	#7
Ross Herewini Sponsor: eFilms (MxR) Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 171	I have seen that same effect a couple of times, and I am using Edius. I only notice it when I am previewing the material at high speed, then it becomes obvious. I don't get it on the external reference monitor though, only on the computer screen. It occured to me that there was neon lighting in the room on one occasion, and perhaps the timing was off between the camera and the lighting, like a very slow motion half shutter we get with the a flash unit going off. Have you tried putting it out to DVD and play it back to see if it still a problem? It may be nothing to worry about. __________________ Ross Herewini - E-films Makers of the new MxR Extreme

November 5th, 2009, 01:21 AM	#3
Rodney Minott Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 35	Thanks, Vincent. I'm not sure if I really understand what you mean, but in any case is there anything I can do to correct/fix it so that there's no clash?

November 5th, 2009, 04:26 AM	#5
Kevin Cates Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Fairfax, CA USA Posts: 33	Could you further describe 'ripple'. Can you post a clip or a still demonstrating the problem?

November 5th, 2009, 05:54 AM	#6
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	Does this appear on an external NTSC/PAL monitor or only in the FCP preview window? I see all kinds of weird stuff when previewing on computer monitor. Only an external NTSC/PAL monitor tells the truth about your footage. If you are compressing for final delivery for computer view only, then it should look good. But only after compressing to the final QT/Flash or whatever format. XDcam is pretty heavy to decode especially in a program with as much overhead as FCP. I use AJA Kona and Matrox MX02 hardware along with HD-SDI monitors for previewing. You also need fast HD's, preferably raided to what is really going on.

November 5th, 2009, 08:10 AM	#8
William Urschel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bee Cave, Texas Posts: 151	I also was most distressed to see the "ripple effect" (and as to cause, I have NO idea!) when I saw it in the Premiere Pro CS3 timeline playback - using Cineform Prospect 4k plug in, with some CRUCIAL shots on an event videography production. So here is the same problem on a PC platform with Adobe programs instead of FCP on Apple - leads one to think its the camera, doesn't it? The "ripple" (if you see it, you know it!) was exhibited as horizontal waves proceeding from top to bottom of the 16x9 1920x1080 30p production, on several shots. I spent a lot of time examining camera setting, edit settings, etc., and could not discern any pattern suggesting why the problem showed up on a few shots, and none others! In any event, because a couple of shots exhibiting ripple were really essential, I included them in the final production, and after going through the various steps to provide a BD-R (using AME CS-4 and Encore CS4), the issue did not appear! This parellels the experience of one other user, as reported above. Soooo, in future, I will proceed as if the problem does not exist. Because in the final product, it doesn't! I'd follow the suggestion already given above, and produce a test BD orDVD, and see what happens.

November 5th, 2009, 09:16 AM	#9
Rodney Minott Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 35	Thanks all so much for the great input. I haven't tested the footage yet by outputting to a DVD. Will do that later today to find out what happens. As others have mentioned, I suspect it's not going to show up in a final delivery. I'll keep testing and will give an update later on. Thanks again.

November 6th, 2009, 04:41 AM	#10
Paul Gale Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 425	I've seen this kind of issue many times. In my experience it's entirely down to the playback ability (or not) of the graphics card. I see something that may be similar on my current edit PC setup. Often known as 'tearing'. I suspect you won't see it on a production monitor or DVD playback on a TV set.

November 6th, 2009, 07:39 AM	#11
Rodney Minott Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 35	I did a test by outputting to a DVD yesterday ... and the rippling didn't show up, thankfully. Also not showing up on my output production monitor. So looks like it's benign.