Thinking about taking the jump at DVinfo.net

Garrett Low · October 23rd, 2009, 02:01 PM

Hello,

I am thinking about making the move to the EX3 from a Canon XL H1a and XH A1. I would sell both Canons to get an EX3. One thing I'm concerned about is that I shoot a lot of live performance dance and stage shows and am a little concerned with rolling shutter issues. Even though parents aren't suppose to use flash photography many don't turn off their flashes when they snap a shot of their kids (even thought their flash does no good from the back of the theater).

I am use to having a backup camera rolling at all times which is why I have the two Canons. I would be using a small HV20 as my backup cam if I make the move. So, I would also be interested to know how hard it would be to color match the Canon HV20 to the EX3.

I'd appreciate any input or comments you cold give me. I also shoot documentaries and some small short films. I'm transitioning into some commercial work too which is one of the main reasons I am considering the move to the EX3.

Thanks,
Garrett

Craig Seeman · October 23rd, 2009, 03:26 PM

Someone posted that ClipBrowser 2.6 I believe would have something that would take care of the split frame flash issue. Of course no one knows until Sony actually releases it.

Brooks Graham · October 23rd, 2009, 04:03 PM

I've done a bit of live performance shooting with the EX3 and if the flash comes from the audience with a pocket camera, the "flash band" has not been all that noticeable, if at all. In a recent event in a nearly pitch-black venue, I was really worried about the CMOS flash problem since there were quite a few audience members firing their little flashes and one photojournalist with a nuclear flash unit but I only noticed his flashes. He was also right up at the edge of the stage. (the inverse-square law in action)

I've been shooting on an EX3 for almost a year, and haven't looked back. You'll love it.

Craig Seeman · October 23rd, 2009, 04:39 PM

I've shot a number of fireworks displays without issue. It seems the rolling shutter flash happens only if the flash nearly fills the screen so that the scan is "split" between frames. In other words small flashes not filling the frame tend not to show the issue.

Graeme Fullick · October 23rd, 2009, 10:04 PM

Garret,

I use a Canon HV20 all the time as a B roll cam when I travel and can't afford the weight of a larger camera. It intercuts reasonably well with the EX1 (EX3 image quality is just about identical), but there is a considerable difference in sharpness. I shoot in interlace and back off the detail a tad on my EX1 (it still looks fantastic) when I travel which also helps with the match.

The HV20 is agreat little camera - and unless your material is going to a high end market, will do a very reasonable job.

The rolling shutter is virtually a non-issue. I have had almost no trouble with half frames, and the few that I have had were very easily fixed in the edit with a with partly opaque dress frame over the top. Unless you are planning on throwing the camera around to the point of being sea sick, you wont see any motion artifacts either. There are some specific instances where users have said that the rolling shutter is an issue, but they are rare. You could also say that the ugly line you get on a CCD when it gets a light overload is an issue, but people tend to forget this when they complain about CMOS issues. It seems a bit like "selective deafness" to me!

Tom Daigon · October 23rd, 2009, 10:37 PM

I just jumped / added the EX3 to my Canon5D. The Canon makes beautiful pictures and the EX3 does what clients (commercial/corporate) expect (in terms of its capabilities with signal display and time code and stuff.

Tim Polster · October 23rd, 2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooks Graham

and one photojournalist with a nuclear flash unit

That's hillarious!

I had the same concerns before using the EX-1 for a live event but as was stated already, it is a non-issue.

Lets face it, flashes going off at an event never look good. They go by so fast that the odd split frame does not even register.

It is a great camera with a lot of detail. Really good for wide shots.

Garrett Low · October 24th, 2009, 12:59 AM

Thanks for all the great replies and information so far. I had a feeling that the rolling shutter "issue" would not be as bad as some have mad it out to be. After all my little hv20 is a CMOS cam and it doesn't exhibit it too badly.

Brooks, I have to admit I'm sometimes one of those nuts with nuclear flash. It's great because I can shoot near 60' and fill a stage in a completely dark theater. I'm sure I totally piss off others who happen to shoot at the same time as I do. But, I usually don't use it in live performance situations.

Alister Chapman · October 24th, 2009, 06:18 AM

I've used a beta of the soon to be released Clip Browser with "Flash Band" removal. In the beta version the auto detection was a little hit and miss, I expect this will be improved by the time it gets released. However you can manually tag any frames that need correction and the correction is extremely effective in most cases totally removing all trace of the flash band.

October 23rd, 2009, 02:01 PM	#1
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Thinking about taking the jump Hello, I am thinking about making the move to the EX3 from a Canon XL H1a and XH A1. I would sell both Canons to get an EX3. One thing I'm concerned about is that I shoot a lot of live performance dance and stage shows and am a little concerned with rolling shutter issues. Even though parents aren't suppose to use flash photography many don't turn off their flashes when they snap a shot of their kids (even thought their flash does no good from the back of the theater). I am use to having a backup camera rolling at all times which is why I have the two Canons. I would be using a small HV20 as my backup cam if I make the move. So, I would also be interested to know how hard it would be to color match the Canon HV20 to the EX3. I'd appreciate any input or comments you cold give me. I also shoot documentaries and some small short films. I'm transitioning into some commercial work too which is one of the main reasons I am considering the move to the EX3. Thanks, Garrett

October 23rd, 2009, 04:03 PM	#3
Brooks Graham Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 121	I've done a bit of live performance shooting with the EX3 and if the flash comes from the audience with a pocket camera, the "flash band" has not been all that noticeable, if at all. In a recent event in a nearly pitch-black venue, I was really worried about the CMOS flash problem since there were quite a few audience members firing their little flashes and one photojournalist with a nuclear flash unit but I only noticed his flashes. He was also right up at the edge of the stage. (the inverse-square law in action) I've been shooting on an EX3 for almost a year, and haven't looked back. You'll love it. __________________ EX3, Z1U, FX1, D1X / NeXTstation Turbo Color / FCS3

October 23rd, 2009, 10:04 PM	#5
Graeme Fullick Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Newcastle, Australia Posts: 337	Garret, I use a Canon HV20 all the time as a B roll cam when I travel and can't afford the weight of a larger camera. It intercuts reasonably well with the EX1 (EX3 image quality is just about identical), but there is a considerable difference in sharpness. I shoot in interlace and back off the detail a tad on my EX1 (it still looks fantastic) when I travel which also helps with the match. The HV20 is agreat little camera - and unless your material is going to a high end market, will do a very reasonable job. The rolling shutter is virtually a non-issue. I have had almost no trouble with half frames, and the few that I have had were very easily fixed in the edit with a with partly opaque dress frame over the top. Unless you are planning on throwing the camera around to the point of being sea sick, you wont see any motion artifacts either. There are some specific instances where users have said that the rolling shutter is an issue, but they are rare. You could also say that the ugly line you get on a CCD when it gets a light overload is an issue, but people tend to forget this when they complain about CMOS issues. It seems a bit like "selective deafness" to me! __________________ Graeme

October 24th, 2009, 12:59 AM	#8
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Thanks for all the great replies and information so far. I had a feeling that the rolling shutter "issue" would not be as bad as some have mad it out to be. After all my little hv20 is a CMOS cam and it doesn't exhibit it too badly. Brooks, I have to admit I'm sometimes one of those nuts with nuclear flash. It's great because I can shoot near 60' and fill a stage in a completely dark theater. I'm sure I totally piss off others who happen to shoot at the same time as I do. But, I usually don't use it in live performance situations. Last edited by Garrett Low; October 24th, 2009 at 07:27 AM.

October 24th, 2009, 06:18 AM	#9
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	I've used a beta of the soon to be released Clip Browser with "Flash Band" removal. In the beta version the auto detection was a little hit and miss, I expect this will be improved by the time it gets released. However you can manually tag any frames that need correction and the correction is extremely effective in most cases totally removing all trace of the flash band. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

October 23rd, 2009, 03:26 PM	#2
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Someone posted that ClipBrowser 2.6 I believe would have something that would take care of the split frame flash issue. Of course no one knows until Sony actually releases it.

October 23rd, 2009, 04:39 PM	#4
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	I've shot a number of fireworks displays without issue. It seems the rolling shutter flash happens only if the flash nearly fills the screen so that the scan is "split" between frames. In other words small flashes not filling the frame tend not to show the issue.

October 23rd, 2009, 10:37 PM	#6
Tom Daigon Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 170	I just jumped / added the EX3 to my Canon5D. The Canon makes beautiful pictures and the EX3 does what clients (commercial/corporate) expect (in terms of its capabilities with signal display and time code and stuff.