EX-1 In-camera Effects For Sports Video at DVinfo.net

Chip Curry · October 19th, 2009, 09:54 PM

I have a contract to do a 3-4 minute demo video for a fitness club (basketball, swimming, tennis, exercise machines, the works). I immediately thought this would be a good time to use slow motion on basketball jump shots. But then it occurred to me to ask on this forum about any other in-camera effects that people have used successfully that might fit a tight trendy piece. Forgive me if this is too broad a topic, but actually that is why I am asking, because the possibilities are endless and it might be nice to hear of some specific success stories. Technical settings and links to videos welcome. Thanks in advance.

Craig Seeman · October 19th, 2009, 10:55 PM

Shutter speed can be another interesting effect. High shutter speed can result in a kind of "stuttery" motion as in the movie Saving Private Ryan. I see in frequently in football video also. A more technical description might be that high shutter speed reduces motion blur so that the movement seems less fluid. You can do this with or without slow motion.

Matt Davis · October 20th, 2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip Curry

it might be nice to hear of some specific success stories. Technical settings and links to videos welcome.

The EX series does nice slo-mo, but for more extension, FCP users may like to check this movie out:

Interlaced footage can appear to make better software-created slomo than progressive but at the expense of resolution as each field gets deinterlaced and made into a frame. The optical flow stuff in Compressor can help progressive footage and to a certain extent 'go further'.

And have you checked out Pluraleyes? Singular Software

I like the fast shutter effect. Not juddery in my eyes (but then bought up on a diet of Top Gear). It helps Optical Flow to do its morphing effects.

It would be interesting to see if anyone in this field has an opinion about shooting progressive (delete, delete - no, no I meant to type 'interlaced'). Personally, I try to avoid it. Right now, some broadcast HD relies on it but no HD display device I know of is natively interlaced like CRTs are. Maybe a debate over shooting 720p60 vs 1080p30 capturing the clean motion at the expense of resolution. I bring this up as it could be argued that most people in most viewing circumstances don't actually achieve the benefit of 1080 and that upscaled 720 is just fine. Sure, for cinematic projection it doesn't apply but it sounds like your production is going to be watched at home or school.

WOW! Mr Hurd, I *like* this new video embed feature!

Craig Seeman · October 20th, 2009, 11:02 AM

I avoid interlace at almost all costs.

720p60 gives you the same temporal resolution. Each 1/60 displays 720 lines as opposed to the 540 that 1080i60 (60 fields) would have. So for me 720p60 wins for sports shooting or other high motion.

1080p30 is great for talking heads stuff or other low motion. It's certainly less temporal motion than 1080i60 but it's still 1080 lines displayed vs alternating 540. No jagged edges when doing compositing. Its great for chroma key for example. i60 can certainly give you more temporal resolution if you're slowing this down but if that's my objective I'd shoot 720p60 as 720 lines per 1/60 is better that 540 per 1/60.

You can also "re-flag" 720p60 down to 720p24 if you're willing to work in that time base (which would work for Blu-ray for example) and create slow mo without any need for optical flow created frames.

The only time I can see shooting 1080i60 is for HD broadcast happening in that format. Some stations do use 720p60 though.

Progressive frames is also much better for work targeting web and digital signage. Starting with progressive is always better than having to deinterlace. Even the best deinterlace software bumps into "trouble spots" that just won't happen if you shoot progressive.

Matt Davis · October 20th, 2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss

It would be interesting to see if anyone in this field has an opinion about shooting progressive. Personally, I try to avoid it.

Aaargh! Slaps forehead and buries head in hands. No. Not 'progressive' - I meant to type 'interlaced'. Loud and slow: I try to avoid Interlaced.

Sorry for the confusion - commenting during son's playtime, excuses excuses, sorry, sorry... just for the record - interlaced = NO.

And now I've burned the lamb for supper tonight. Where were we? (blush) Can't multitask - DVinfo + play time + cooking supper = disaster.

Chip Curry · October 20th, 2009, 02:09 PM

Thanks guys,
I liked the pluraleyes demo video. I assume that is fast shutter with slow-mo in the basketball sequence. And they add the high contrast chroma, cool. Anyone have any other footage like that? I will make some tests.
As far as the slow-mo Vimeo embed, I did not know about compressor's motion compensated frame blending. What do I do, send clip from FCP to Compressor and select that option? How does this differ from the speed function in FCP--or is this the same thing.
Cool ideas.

Other thoughts I had were to do a timelapse of people entering the fitness club. And maybe using some slow shutter to accentuate blur on an exercise bike. But haven't tried either.

Matt Davis · October 20th, 2009, 02:15 PM

Leaving aside FCP's Cmd-J speed changing...

The Alex4d clips were done by processing a clip in Compressor separately from FCP. Get the clip, process it in Compressor, import into FCP, and enjoy.

FCP's internal scaling and temporal changes are not a patch on what Compressor can do with the Optical Flow technology taken from Shake, the legendary compositing tool Apple purchased, raided then left out to dry. Unless the next release of Motion does Nodes, but I digress.

October 19th, 2009, 09:54 PM	#1
Chip Curry Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 54	EX-1 In-camera Effects For Sports Video I have a contract to do a 3-4 minute demo video for a fitness club (basketball, swimming, tennis, exercise machines, the works). I immediately thought this would be a good time to use slow motion on basketball jump shots. But then it occurred to me to ask on this forum about any other in-camera effects that people have used successfully that might fit a tight trendy piece. Forgive me if this is too broad a topic, but actually that is why I am asking, because the possibilities are endless and it might be nice to hear of some specific success stories. Technical settings and links to videos welcome. Thanks in advance.

October 20th, 2009, 02:15 PM	#7
Matt Davis Trustee Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 1,562	Leaving aside FCP's Cmd-J speed changing... The Alex4d clips were done by processing a clip in Compressor separately from FCP. Get the clip, process it in Compressor, import into FCP, and enjoy. FCP's internal scaling and temporal changes are not a patch on what Compressor can do with the Optical Flow technology taken from Shake, the legendary compositing tool Apple purchased, raided then left out to dry. Unless the next release of Motion does Nodes, but I digress. __________________ Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6

October 19th, 2009, 10:55 PM	#2
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Shutter speed can be another interesting effect. High shutter speed can result in a kind of "stuttery" motion as in the movie Saving Private Ryan. I see in frequently in football video also. A more technical description might be that high shutter speed reduces motion blur so that the movement seems less fluid. You can do this with or without slow motion.

October 20th, 2009, 11:02 AM	#4
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	I avoid interlace at almost all costs. 720p60 gives you the same temporal resolution. Each 1/60 displays 720 lines as opposed to the 540 that 1080i60 (60 fields) would have. So for me 720p60 wins for sports shooting or other high motion. 1080p30 is great for talking heads stuff or other low motion. It's certainly less temporal motion than 1080i60 but it's still 1080 lines displayed vs alternating 540. No jagged edges when doing compositing. Its great for chroma key for example. i60 can certainly give you more temporal resolution if you're slowing this down but if that's my objective I'd shoot 720p60 as 720 lines per 1/60 is better that 540 per 1/60. You can also "re-flag" 720p60 down to 720p24 if you're willing to work in that time base (which would work for Blu-ray for example) and create slow mo without any need for optical flow created frames. The only time I can see shooting 1080i60 is for HD broadcast happening in that format. Some stations do use 720p60 though. Progressive frames is also much better for work targeting web and digital signage. Starting with progressive is always better than having to deinterlace. Even the best deinterlace software bumps into "trouble spots" that just won't happen if you shoot progressive.

October 20th, 2009, 02:09 PM	#6
Chip Curry Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 54	Thanks guys, I liked the pluraleyes demo video. I assume that is fast shutter with slow-mo in the basketball sequence. And they add the high contrast chroma, cool. Anyone have any other footage like that? I will make some tests. As far as the slow-mo Vimeo embed, I did not know about compressor's motion compensated frame blending. What do I do, send clip from FCP to Compressor and select that option? How does this differ from the speed function in FCP--or is this the same thing. Cool ideas. Other thoughts I had were to do a timelapse of people entering the fitness club. And maybe using some slow shutter to accentuate blur on an exercise bike. But haven't tried either.