Best Slo-Mo for 1920 Project?? at DVinfo.net

Robert Young · September 28th, 2009, 12:06 PM

I'm shooting an event in 2 weeks using 1080 HQ settings. I'm planning on a few slo-mo scenes and I wonder which approach is best:
1) Stay in 1080 and produce the slo mo effect in post from normal HQ footage
2) Shoot overcrank 720 and uprez the footage to 1080 in post, to fit in whith the rest of the project
3) Some other clever idea that hasn't occured to me
Thanks

Bo Skelmose · September 28th, 2009, 12:13 PM

I would prefer solution no. 2

Andy Nitchman · September 29th, 2009, 08:09 PM

#2

over cranking @ 720 and upressing will result in image with much better motion quality. upressing may cause some softening but my guess is that it would be less noticeable then the softening and motion blurring you get with most NLE slowmotion effects.

Robert Young · September 30th, 2009, 02:07 AM

Yeah... I'm thinking I will do #2. That's what I've done before- and it does always look a little soft
I could shoot it in 720 & it would really be a no brainer, but I will have some delivery on Blu Ray, and the 1920 just looks so good- I don't want to give it up.
Maybe I'll do some of each, put it on BD & just see what I get.
Thanks

Ryan Mitchell · September 30th, 2009, 10:40 AM

Another option is to shoot the portions you want in slo-mo at full 1080 but at 60p (or does it only allow 60i?). If you're doing a 30p or 24p project you can have your NLE software use the 60 fps footage at the slower frame rate, effectively making it overcranked. Might not be as straightforward as up-rezzing but should work okay. I know Phillip Bloom is using this technique to shoot slo mo on the Canon 7d (which has no overcrank).

I've not done this myself but I think it would work. I should try this out as a test so I can state this with more certainty. :)

Gabe Strong · September 30th, 2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Mitchell

Another option is to shoot the portions you want in slo-mo at full 1080 but at 60p (or does it only allow 60i?). If you're doing a 30p or 24p project you can have your NLE software use the 60 fps footage at the slower frame rate, effectively making it overcranked. Might not be as straightforward as up-rezzing but should work okay. I know Phillip Bloom is using this technique to shoot slo mo on the Canon 7d (which has no overcrank).

I've not done this myself but I think it would work. I should try this out as a test so I can state this with more certainty. :)

As far as I know the EX-1 does NOT shoot 60p at full 1080.

Khoi Pham · September 30th, 2009, 11:37 AM

I stick with 1080i, it is less noticeble than all of a sudden the picture looks so soft, it will blend in better, beside we live with 60i slomo for years, unless your project call for a totally different look at that time then do 60p.

Barry J. Anwender · September 30th, 2009, 11:39 AM

Slow & Quick Motion Recording
—NTSC Area
Video format Recording frame rate
HQ 1080/30P 1 to 30 fps
HQ 1080/24P 1 to 24 fps
HQ 720/60P 1 to 60 fps
HQ 720/30P 1 to 30 fps
HQ 720/24P 1 to 24 fps
—PAL Area
Video format Recording frame rate
HQ 1080/25P 1 to 25 fps
HQ 720/50P 1 to 50 fps
HQ 720/25P 1 to 25 fps

Cheers!

Steve Phillipps · September 30th, 2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khoi Pham

I stick with 1080i, it is less noticeble than all of a sudden the picture looks so soft, it will blend in better, beside we live with 60i slomo for years, unless your project call for a totally different look at that time then do 60p.

Pictures don't suddenly look soft as soon as you go to 720 (maybe they will a bit if you're viewing on a cinema screen). I guarantee that an audience viewing on even a fairly large TV would never even register a difference.
And I don't think it's true to say we lived with 60i slomo for years - I certainly didn't, I shot on film that went to 150fps.
Steve

Khoi Pham · September 30th, 2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

Pictures don't suddenly look soft as soon as you go to 720 (maybe they will a bit if you're viewing on a cinema screen). I guarantee that an audience viewing on even a fairly large TV would never even register a difference.
And I don't think it's true to say we lived with 60i slomo for years - I certainly didn't, I shot on film that went to 150fps.
Steve

Final product he said will be on BD, anybody that has a BD player will have a decent size HDTV, and yes it will be a big drop in resolution and they will notice it right away on any 55" or more, even my wife and kids can see it, unless his client is watching it on a small 42" then they probably won't, I think the majority of shooter here shoot video and not film so that is why I said we lived with 60i slomo for years, I think you are the minority on this forum.

Robert Young · September 30th, 2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khoi Pham

Final product he said will be on BD, anybody that has a BD player will have a decent size HDTV, and yes it will be a big drop in resolution and they will notice it right away on any 55" or more, even my wife and kids can see it, unless his client is watching it on a small 42" then they probably won't, I think the majority of shooter here shoot video and not film so that is why I said we lived with 60i slomo for years, I think you are the minority on this forum.

When I have used 720 overcrank in 1080 projects it definitely looks "suddenly" soft on BR with big HDTV. That's why I was casting about for other suggestions. I haven't tried 1080 slo-mo in AE, but I used to do it with SD DV with pretty good results.
I think I am just going to have to experiment & see how it all looks.

Ryan Mitchell · September 30th, 2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry J. Anwender

Slow & Quick Motion Recording
—NTSC Area
Video format Recording frame rate
HQ 1080/30P 1 to 30 fps
HQ 1080/24P 1 to 24 fps
HQ 720/60P 1 to 60 fps
HQ 720/30P 1 to 30 fps
HQ 720/24P 1 to 24 fps
—PAL Area
Video format Recording frame rate
HQ 1080/25P 1 to 25 fps
HQ 720/50P 1 to 50 fps
HQ 720/25P 1 to 25 fps

Cheers!

Yep, so he'd have to do 1080i60 and de-interlace.

Robert - another thing if it's applicable for you. If you have Magic Bullet Suite, the Frames plug-in ( Red Giant Software: Magic Bullet Frames 1.0 ) might get you better de-interlacing if you end up shooting 1080i60. I've never used it as I haven't had a need, but if it has the options to do so, it might be an interesting approach.

Another thing to try that I also haven't used (jeez - I gotta get some cred here!) is Twixter ( RE:Vision Effects, Inc. : Products: Twixtor ). Pricey, but the regular (non-Pro) version would probably work for you, and everyone that I hear that does regular slo-mo type stuff speaks highly of this plug-in.

Definitely let us know your results, though - I know I'm interested to hear what you find out. If you were near the Austin area I'd offer up my assistance...

Ryan Mitchell · September 30th, 2009, 07:30 PM

Robert - on second thought, since you're in Hawaii, perhaps I need to just fly out there and help you personally. I wonder if I could write that off as a business expense? :)

Nathan Hudson · October 1st, 2009, 12:03 AM

maybe i'm misreading but it still seems some are confusing the '60' in 60i as frames. They are fields, not frames. 60i=30 Frames Per Second.

Steve Phillipps · October 1st, 2009, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Young

When I have used 720 overcrank in 1080 projects it definitely looks "suddenly" soft on BR with big HDTV. That's why I was casting about for other suggestions. I haven't tried 1080 slo-mo in AE, but I used to do it with SD DV with pretty good results.
I think I am just going to have to experiment & see how it all looks.

Maybe I'll suggest to the BBC that they get rid of their Varicams for their Planet Earth style projects and de-interlace a 60i camera instead! Get the feeling I know what the response will be.
Steve

September 28th, 2009, 12:06 PM	#1
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Best Slo-Mo for 1920 Project?? I'm shooting an event in 2 weeks using 1080 HQ settings. I'm planning on a few slo-mo scenes and I wonder which approach is best: 1) Stay in 1080 and produce the slo mo effect in post from normal HQ footage 2) Shoot overcrank 720 and uprez the footage to 1080 in post, to fit in whith the rest of the project 3) Some other clever idea that hasn't occured to me Thanks __________________ Bob

September 30th, 2009, 02:07 AM	#4
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Yeah... I'm thinking I will do #2. That's what I've done before- and it does always look a little soft I could shoot it in 720 & it would really be a no brainer, but I will have some delivery on Blu Ray, and the 1920 just looks so good- I don't want to give it up. Maybe I'll do some of each, put it on BD & just see what I get. Thanks __________________ Bob

September 30th, 2009, 11:37 AM	#7
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	I stick with 1080i, it is less noticeble than all of a sudden the picture looks so soft, it will blend in better, beside we live with 60i slomo for years, unless your project call for a totally different look at that time then do 60p. __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

September 30th, 2009, 11:39 AM	#8
Barry J. Anwender Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 382	From The Equipment Manual Slow & Quick Motion Recording —NTSC Area Video format Recording frame rate HQ 1080/30P 1 to 30 fps HQ 1080/24P 1 to 24 fps HQ 720/60P 1 to 60 fps HQ 720/30P 1 to 30 fps HQ 720/24P 1 to 24 fps —PAL Area Video format Recording frame rate HQ 1080/25P 1 to 25 fps HQ 720/50P 1 to 50 fps HQ 720/25P 1 to 25 fps Cheers!

September 28th, 2009, 12:13 PM	#2
Bo Skelmose Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 495	I would prefer solution no. 2

September 29th, 2009, 08:09 PM	#3
Andy Nitchman Tourist Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lancaster PA Posts: 3	#2 over cranking @ 720 and upressing will result in image with much better motion quality. upressing may cause some softening but my guess is that it would be less noticeable then the softening and motion blurring you get with most NLE slowmotion effects.

September 30th, 2009, 10:40 AM	#5
Ryan Mitchell Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 120	Another option is to shoot the portions you want in slo-mo at full 1080 but at 60p (or does it only allow 60i?). If you're doing a 30p or 24p project you can have your NLE software use the 60 fps footage at the slower frame rate, effectively making it overcranked. Might not be as straightforward as up-rezzing but should work okay. I know Phillip Bloom is using this technique to shoot slo mo on the Canon 7d (which has no overcrank). I've not done this myself but I think it would work. I should try this out as a test so I can state this with more certainty. :)

September 30th, 2009, 07:30 PM	#13
Ryan Mitchell Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 120	Robert - on second thought, since you're in Hawaii, perhaps I need to just fly out there and help you personally. I wonder if I could write that off as a business expense? :)

October 1st, 2009, 12:03 AM	#14
Nathan Hudson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 55	maybe i'm misreading but it still seems some are confusing the '60' in 60i as frames. They are fields, not frames. 60i=30 Frames Per Second.