EX3 Recording Solutions at DVinfo.net

John M. McCloskey · September 16th, 2009, 10:49 AM

At 50 mbs or 100 mbs (1080) which tapeless recording solution on the market will hold the most media. With a typical shoot of ours we will shoot between 360 to 520 minutes in remote areas. Is there anything that can hold that much media that can be attached to your EX3 camera, Nano Flash, Firestore, ETC.... Definitly dont want to buy 6 to 10 SXS cards X 8 Field Producers =48 to 80 SXS cards, Ouch. THanks

Doug Jensen · September 16th, 2009, 12:21 PM

John,

This unit has not been released yet, but I think it will solve your problem.
PXU-MS240 Mobile Storage Unit From Sony

Give a PXU-MS240 and two SxS cards (even 8GB) to each of your field prducers, and they could shoot for days. 240GB capacity. 10X transfer speed. No computer needed. Built-in error checking. Battery operated. And more reliable than SD cards.

How much? I think it will cost less than $1500 including one 240GB cartridge. Additional cartridges might cost around 400 bucks. Not as cheap as other hard drives, but they aren't ordinary hard drives. Would you pay $1500 for the equivalent of a 240GB SxS card? I would.

Alister Chapman · September 16th, 2009, 12:58 PM

The OP was looking for 50 or 100Mb/s recording. I would go with the NanoFlash and a Nexto ND2725.

If you get 4x 32Gb cards for the NanoFlash at 50Mb/s that gives around 4 hours of record time. Then offload to a 500Gb Nexto which will hold 15 hours of material for $500 ish.

John M. McCloskey · September 16th, 2009, 01:25 PM

Great, the link to Nexto is Nexto DI - Next Generation Storage with Digital Interface thanks for the help..

Doug Jensen · September 16th, 2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

The OP was looking for 50 or 100Mb/s recording.

Thanks Alister. I need to get glasses! :-)

NanoFlash is definately the way to go.

Alister Chapman · September 16th, 2009, 02:22 PM

Ohhhh don't talk to me about glasses. I had to get reading glasses for the first time this week.

Have you tried the NanoFlash yet Doug? It's sweet.

Doug Jensen · September 16th, 2009, 02:53 PM

Nope, I haven't tried it yet but Dennis Dillon raves about it. If you and Dennis say it's good, that's good enough for me. I just don't have a need for buying one it at this time.

The HQ mode of the EX3 is plenty good enough for me right now, so why bother with the extra gear?

I do have to record HD-SDI and HDMI output from other cameras quite often so I have an EX30 deck mounted in a Pelican case and running off NP1 batteries. (Note: HDMI recording requires an AJA converter). I thought about using the Nano, but the EX30 is so much more versatile and I like keeping all the footage with the same codec and on SxS cards. I can also use the EX30 for playback screening when I get back from a shoot, importing, etc. It's a nice unit and fits my needs better than the Nano. But I'm keeping an open mind because everything I've heard about it is positive.

PS. I starrted using reading glasses last spring. Not even close to needing prescription glasses, though! Knock on wood.

Dennis Dillon · September 16th, 2009, 07:53 PM

Doug,
The step up to 50Mb/100Mb in the Ex line is a big bumped up in quality, but one has to scan the files at 20x20/ or less, pixel sample to see what is really going on. A simple test of random viewers may not see a difference in 90+% of the original EX footage. The real test is in high demand situations for the EX @ 35 Mb. You know the ones. This all comes down to how much compression in a given situation satisfies your needs. A Cost base/Data space analysis, will determine if a Nano, or for that matter any flash system, is right for yourself or your clients. Let the truth be told, my network clients have no F---kn idea what Im talking about, but they do like a pretty picture that drags and drops into their timelines without a hitch.
I have suggested a possible EX/XDCAM workflow to Dan @ CD and Chris @ Sony and we may soon have a great solution to write EX/Nano files 422 50Mb to optical clip folder/Proxies !!!!!. Stay tuned.

Alister Chapman · September 17th, 2009, 01:47 AM

The quality of 35Mb EX footage still amazes me even after 2 years of use. However the nano allows me to do much more with my material in post production and I don't worry so much about multiple generations. I understand your desire to keep everything in one format. I'm looking at making 100Mb/s NanoFlash files my "standard" format. I love being able to take my pocket sized Nano to events to play back footage at 100Mb/s.

Lance Librandi · September 17th, 2009, 04:46 AM

Hello Alister,
I am curious, on the subject of quality if you take 35Mb EX footage put it onto the time line and export to DVD. Then repeat the same process with the Nano files 100Mb/s. Assuming that the same software and settings was used in both cases would you be able to pick the difference.
Thanks

Alister Chapman · September 17th, 2009, 04:52 AM

It depends on whether you grade or treat the footage. If you do any moderate to heavy grading them I would expect the NanoFlash files to have an edge. If you do nothing to the material then I would not expect to see a difference.

Doug Jensen · September 17th, 2009, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

IIf you do any moderate to heavy grading them I would expect the NanoFlash files to have an edge.

That's exactly whey I haven't felt the need to get a Nano. I try to get my footage looking the way I want it in-camera so no grading is needed on 99% if it. And when I do need to adjust something, it is usually minor. I'd love to do a split-screen comparison between SxS and Nano that went all the through my workflow to see if there was any difference.

I've got some green screen work coming up later this year, and the Nano might be just the ticket for that.

Paul Cronin · September 17th, 2009, 06:43 AM

Doug the Nano is worth every penny. If you would like to set up a time we can meet so you can try my Nano.

Doug Jensen · September 17th, 2009, 06:59 AM

Paul, that'd be great. Thanks for the offer. Maybe we can meet at Beavertail in October because I'm out of town this week and I'm booked every day through the end of the month. I might have something else for us to test at the same time if we wait.

Paul Cronin · September 17th, 2009, 08:38 AM

Sounds good Doug,

I am flat out till the end of the first week of Oct and then on the road most of Nov. So Oct sounds great and Beavertail is a nice place in the afternoon golden light.

I have Sandisk Extreme III and IV cards so we can shoot slow motion in I-Frame and 100 bit rate long GOP.

Just send me an email when you know what works for you.

September 16th, 2009, 10:49 AM	#1
John M. McCloskey Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Point, MS Posts: 313	EX3 Recording Solutions At 50 mbs or 100 mbs (1080) which tapeless recording solution on the market will hold the most media. With a typical shoot of ours we will shoot between 360 to 520 minutes in remote areas. Is there anything that can hold that much media that can be attached to your EX3 camera, Nano Flash, Firestore, ETC.... Definitly dont want to buy 6 to 10 SXS cards X 8 Field Producers =48 to 80 SXS cards, Ouch. THanks

September 16th, 2009, 12:21 PM	#2
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	Pxu-ms240 John, This unit has not been released yet, but I think it will solve your problem. PXU-MS240 Mobile Storage Unit From Sony Give a PXU-MS240 and two SxS cards (even 8GB) to each of your field prducers, and they could shoot for days. 240GB capacity. 10X transfer speed. No computer needed. Built-in error checking. Battery operated. And more reliable than SD cards. How much? I think it will cost less than $1500 including one 240GB cartridge. Additional cartridges might cost around 400 bucks. Not as cheap as other hard drives, but they aren't ordinary hard drives. Would you pay $1500 for the equivalent of a 240GB SxS card? I would. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

September 16th, 2009, 12:58 PM	#3
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	The OP was looking for 50 or 100Mb/s recording. I would go with the NanoFlash and a Nexto ND2725. If you get 4x 32Gb cards for the NanoFlash at 50Mb/s that gives around 4 hours of record time. Then offload to a 500Gb Nexto which will hold 15 hours of material for $500 ish. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 16th, 2009, 02:22 PM	#6
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Ohhhh don't talk to me about glasses. I had to get reading glasses for the first time this week. Have you tried the NanoFlash yet Doug? It's sweet. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 16th, 2009, 02:53 PM	#7
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	Nope, I haven't tried it yet but Dennis Dillon raves about it. If you and Dennis say it's good, that's good enough for me. I just don't have a need for buying one it at this time. The HQ mode of the EX3 is plenty good enough for me right now, so why bother with the extra gear? I do have to record HD-SDI and HDMI output from other cameras quite often so I have an EX30 deck mounted in a Pelican case and running off NP1 batteries. (Note: HDMI recording requires an AJA converter). I thought about using the Nano, but the EX30 is so much more versatile and I like keeping all the footage with the same codec and on SxS cards. I can also use the EX30 for playback screening when I get back from a shoot, importing, etc. It's a nice unit and fits my needs better than the Nano. But I'm keeping an open mind because everything I've heard about it is positive. PS. I starrted using reading glasses last spring. Not even close to needing prescription glasses, though! Knock on wood. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools Last edited by Doug Jensen; September 16th, 2009 at 05:59 PM.

September 16th, 2009, 01:25 PM	#4
John M. McCloskey Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Point, MS Posts: 313	Great, the link to Nexto is Nexto DI - Next Generation Storage with Digital Interface thanks for the help..

September 16th, 2009, 07:53 PM	#8
Dennis Dillon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hobe Sound, Florida Posts: 213	Doug, The step up to 50Mb/100Mb in the Ex line is a big bumped up in quality, but one has to scan the files at 20x20/ or less, pixel sample to see what is really going on. A simple test of random viewers may not see a difference in 90+% of the original EX footage. The real test is in high demand situations for the EX @ 35 Mb. You know the ones. This all comes down to how much compression in a given situation satisfies your needs. A Cost base/Data space analysis, will determine if a Nano, or for that matter any flash system, is right for yourself or your clients. Let the truth be told, my network clients have no F---kn idea what Im talking about, but they do like a pretty picture that drags and drops into their timelines without a hitch. I have suggested a possible EX/XDCAM workflow to Dan @ CD and Chris @ Sony and we may soon have a great solution to write EX/Nano files 422 50Mb to optical clip folder/Proxies !!!!!. Stay tuned.

September 17th, 2009, 01:47 AM	#9
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	The quality of 35Mb EX footage still amazes me even after 2 years of use. However the nano allows me to do much more with my material in post production and I don't worry so much about multiple generations. I understand your desire to keep everything in one format. I'm looking at making 100Mb/s NanoFlash files my "standard" format. I love being able to take my pocket sized Nano to events to play back footage at 100Mb/s. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 17th, 2009, 04:46 AM	#10
Lance Librandi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 374	Hello Alister, I am curious, on the subject of quality if you take 35Mb EX footage put it onto the time line and export to DVD. Then repeat the same process with the Nano files 100Mb/s. Assuming that the same software and settings was used in both cases would you be able to pick the difference. Thanks

September 17th, 2009, 04:52 AM	#11
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	It depends on whether you grade or treat the footage. If you do any moderate to heavy grading them I would expect the NanoFlash files to have an edge. If you do nothing to the material then I would not expect to see a difference. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 17th, 2009, 06:43 AM	#13
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Doug the Nano is worth every penny. If you would like to set up a time we can meet so you can try my Nano. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

September 17th, 2009, 06:59 AM	#14
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	Paul, that'd be great. Thanks for the offer. Maybe we can meet at Beavertail in October because I'm out of town this week and I'm booked every day through the end of the month. I might have something else for us to test at the same time if we wait. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

September 17th, 2009, 08:38 AM	#15
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Sounds good Doug, I am flat out till the end of the first week of Oct and then on the road most of Nov. So Oct sounds great and Beavertail is a nice place in the afternoon golden light. I have Sandisk Extreme III and IV cards so we can shoot slow motion in I-Frame and 100 bit rate long GOP. Just send me an email when you know what works for you. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com