Stuttery Flash video at DVinfo.net

Vincent Oliver · September 15th, 2009, 12:24 PM

Maybe not the right place, but can anyone help with my problem.

I am trying to view web pages which have Flash video content and my Flash plugin/player is delivering slow and stuttering playback, stopping every 30 seconds or so to buffer up.

This has only happened in the last few days, it is now nearly impossible to view any of the Sony clips posted in the gallery.

Any words of wisdom or better still a solution would be much appreciated.

I use Internet Explorer and Safari and my service provider is AOL.

Craig Seeman · September 15th, 2009, 06:26 PM

I encode EX for the web/flash regularly. There's no info to make any determination as to what's happening.

File encoded to what data rate?
What is the running time?
What Flash codec did you use (Spark, VP6, H.264)?
What is the downstream speed of you internet connection (actual test, not what your provider claims)? Test here
Speedtest.net - The Global Broadband Speed Test
What version of Flash plugin do you have installed? Be EXACT. Check here
Adobe - Flash Player
What CPU/GPU specs on your computer? Be EXACT.

Vincent Oliver · September 16th, 2009, 12:37 AM

Thanks Craig,

Its not the videos that I create, it's any video that is published for me to view.

I have version 10,0,12,36 installed on Vista - will need to re-boot to see what is installed on XP

Running the speed test shows a very poor result from my ISP

MP3 file (5mb) 3 min
Video clip (35mb) 19 min
movie (800mb) 428 min 0r 7 hrs 13 min

Download speed 0.25 mbps
Upload speed 0.36 mbps

My result is poor compared to the ISP average.

I think a phone call to AOL may be on the cards for today

Craig Seeman · September 16th, 2009, 01:38 AM

Those speeds are very bad for broadband. It's probably the reason why you're having problems.

Mine are
MP3 file 5MB 2 sec
Video clip 35MB 9 sec
Movie 800MB 3 min

Download speed 32.33 mbps
Upload speed 5.01 mbps

Current version of Flash is 10.0.32.18
So you should update Flash but that's not the issue in this case.

Vincent Oliver · September 16th, 2009, 02:12 AM

THanks for the info Craig. I logged onto my Netgear router web site and changed a couple of the settings (WAN) and now my speed has improved

MP3 file 5MB 15 sec
Video clip 35MB 2 min
Movie 800MB 38 min

Download speed 2.83 mbps
Upload speed 0.33 mbps

Not as impressive as yours, but I can watch the videos again now

Which ISP do you use?

Craig Seeman · September 16th, 2009, 08:31 AM

ISP is Cable Vision (AKA Optimum). BTW they're capable of 101mbps down and 15mbps up for $99(US)/month. I have the tier below that which is 30/5.

They're small but they're competing agains FIOS so they have lots of speed for great prices. It's why I explained to my wife that we're never moving. I'd get the 101mbps service but few servers will even give me the full speed benefit of 30mbps. The advantage of the high speed is I can have several computers downloading/uploading and not see diminished speed.

Your speeds should be OK but you might bump into issues with HD type file playback. Generally you want to be around 2X the bit rate of the clip since it may have spikes in the data rate typical of VBR encodes. For example, an HD YouTube clip is between 2000-2500kbps with spikes up to 4000kbps based on what I've seen. You'll just about be able to handle those clips but the spikes would give you a pause/stutter unless you allowed them to buffer.

This is why as EX users, we need careful consideration about how to show off our work online. Generally you might to go 720p at 1500-2500kbps (with higher peaks) but some people may have problems with those data rates.

The speeds are also important when it comes to delivering the files to clients. Notice the time we have for the 800MB movie. This is where your going to see a big advantage over XDCAM EX vs DVCProHD for example. Because the EX codec can be less than 1/3 the size (depending on the frame rate of the DVCProHD) we can deliver the uncompressed file (EX without further compression) much faster. That's one reason why XDCAM is popular for ENG work. People can argue about EX vs AVC Intra too but when you have to move an HD file across cyberspace "small is beautiful" especially when you can maintain the quality. Of course AVCHD (not Intra) can be smaller (35mbps vs 24mbps) but the file is much harder (at the moment) to decode for editing. I think XDCAM hits the sweet spot in small file and great quality for moving across cyberspace and easy use in an NLE.

Darren Ruddock · September 16th, 2009, 08:49 AM

Hi Craig,

Just wondered what settings you use for your Flash encodes for Ex footage?

I have started to get a lot more web based video work. This is what was suggested to me .....

"the current 'standard' is either 480x270 FLV using On2 VP6 (Flash 8) from Episode, at around 400 kbps, or 512x288 at 600 kbps"

What do you think?

September 15th, 2009, 12:24 PM	#1
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	Stuttery Flash video Maybe not the right place, but can anyone help with my problem. I am trying to view web pages which have Flash video content and my Flash plugin/player is delivering slow and stuttering playback, stopping every 30 seconds or so to buffer up. This has only happened in the last few days, it is now nearly impossible to view any of the Sony clips posted in the gallery. Any words of wisdom or better still a solution would be much appreciated. I use Internet Explorer and Safari and my service provider is AOL. __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

September 16th, 2009, 12:37 AM	#3
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	Thanks Craig, Its not the videos that I create, it's any video that is published for me to view. I have version 10,0,12,36 installed on Vista - will need to re-boot to see what is installed on XP Running the speed test shows a very poor result from my ISP MP3 file (5mb) 3 min Video clip (35mb) 19 min movie (800mb) 428 min 0r 7 hrs 13 min Download speed 0.25 mbps Upload speed 0.36 mbps My result is poor compared to the ISP average. I think a phone call to AOL may be on the cards for today __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

September 16th, 2009, 02:12 AM	#5
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	THanks for the info Craig. I logged onto my Netgear router web site and changed a couple of the settings (WAN) and now my speed has improved MP3 file 5MB 15 sec Video clip 35MB 2 min Movie 800MB 38 min Download speed 2.83 mbps Upload speed 0.33 mbps Not as impressive as yours, but I can watch the videos again now Which ISP do you use? __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

September 15th, 2009, 06:26 PM	#2
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	I encode EX for the web/flash regularly. There's no info to make any determination as to what's happening. File encoded to what data rate? What is the running time? What Flash codec did you use (Spark, VP6, H.264)? What is the downstream speed of you internet connection (actual test, not what your provider claims)? Test here Speedtest.net - The Global Broadband Speed Test What version of Flash plugin do you have installed? Be EXACT. Check here Adobe - Flash Player What CPU/GPU specs on your computer? Be EXACT.

September 16th, 2009, 01:38 AM	#4
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Those speeds are very bad for broadband. It's probably the reason why you're having problems. Mine are MP3 file 5MB 2 sec Video clip 35MB 9 sec Movie 800MB 3 min Download speed 32.33 mbps Upload speed 5.01 mbps Current version of Flash is 10.0.32.18 So you should update Flash but that's not the issue in this case.

September 16th, 2009, 08:31 AM	#6
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	ISP is Cable Vision (AKA Optimum). BTW they're capable of 101mbps down and 15mbps up for $99(US)/month. I have the tier below that which is 30/5. They're small but they're competing agains FIOS so they have lots of speed for great prices. It's why I explained to my wife that we're never moving. I'd get the 101mbps service but few servers will even give me the full speed benefit of 30mbps. The advantage of the high speed is I can have several computers downloading/uploading and not see diminished speed. Your speeds should be OK but you might bump into issues with HD type file playback. Generally you want to be around 2X the bit rate of the clip since it may have spikes in the data rate typical of VBR encodes. For example, an HD YouTube clip is between 2000-2500kbps with spikes up to 4000kbps based on what I've seen. You'll just about be able to handle those clips but the spikes would give you a pause/stutter unless you allowed them to buffer. This is why as EX users, we need careful consideration about how to show off our work online. Generally you might to go 720p at 1500-2500kbps (with higher peaks) but some people may have problems with those data rates. The speeds are also important when it comes to delivering the files to clients. Notice the time we have for the 800MB movie. This is where your going to see a big advantage over XDCAM EX vs DVCProHD for example. Because the EX codec can be less than 1/3 the size (depending on the frame rate of the DVCProHD) we can deliver the uncompressed file (EX without further compression) much faster. That's one reason why XDCAM is popular for ENG work. People can argue about EX vs AVC Intra too but when you have to move an HD file across cyberspace "small is beautiful" especially when you can maintain the quality. Of course AVCHD (not Intra) can be smaller (35mbps vs 24mbps) but the file is much harder (at the moment) to decode for editing. I think XDCAM hits the sweet spot in small file and great quality for moving across cyberspace and easy use in an NLE.

September 16th, 2009, 08:49 AM	#7
Darren Ruddock Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southend, UK Posts: 165	Hi Craig, Just wondered what settings you use for your Flash encodes for Ex footage? I have started to get a lot more web based video work. This is what was suggested to me ..... "the current 'standard' is either 480x270 FLV using On2 VP6 (Flash 8) from Episode, at around 400 kbps, or 512x288 at 600 kbps" What do you think?