EX3 stock lens vs. 3rd party lenses on ramping and breathing at DVinfo.net

Max Allen · July 28th, 2009, 03:33 AM

The EX stock lens doesn't ramp or breathe, an excellent feature. Have any EX3 owners found this to be of any other 1/2" lenses from Fuji or Canon?

Alister Chapman · July 29th, 2009, 11:29 AM

All traditional lenses will breathe to greater or lesser extent as focusing is achieved by moving the front lens element forwards and backwards. Most of the lower cost HD lenses breathe quite a lot. The ex lenses don't breathe as focusing is done by electronicaly moving the some of the rear lens elements.

David Issko · July 29th, 2009, 02:26 PM

My XS lens on my EX3 breathes quite a bit, but as Alister mentioned, that is because of the lens movement. Not a big deal for me.

Max Allen · July 29th, 2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

All traditional lenses will breathe to greater or lesser extent as focusing is achieved by moving the front lens element forwards and backwards. Most of the lower cost HD lenses breathe quite a lot. The ex lenses don't breathe as focusing is done by electronicaly moving the some of the rear lens elements.

First time I saw this in EX I was very impressed. Even the 70x sports lenses I put together sometimes breathe and ramp. If that's how EX does it I wonder why nobody else hasn't employed it. Sounds like a simple enough idea. How is the ramping eliminated?

David C. Williams · July 29th, 2009, 05:40 PM

It does ramp, but the F-Stop reading doesn't show it. From about 10mm it ramps up from F1.9 to F2.8.

Zoom in on something, and your spot meter doesn't move until you pass F2.8.

Doug Jensen · July 29th, 2009, 06:08 PM

The Fujinon HSs18x5.5 lens that I use on my EX3 has no noticeable breathing or ramping at all. Unfortunately, it is a $12,000 lens.

To dispute a thread on another forum (that shall remain nameless) about breathing with Nikon lenses, I did this quick test to show that breathing is not a problem using the Adaptimax and quality Nikon lenses.

Adaptimax Lens Breathing Demonstration on Vimeo

Alister Chapman · July 30th, 2009, 01:52 AM

Doug I would suggest that your clip show quite a lot of breathing. The tree on the left moves a long way in to the left as it comes in to focus. I think what the clip shows is that the shallow depth of field created by the long focal length hides the breathing.

Doug Jensen · July 30th, 2009, 05:12 AM

That's not breathing. That's a side effect of the FCP smoothing filter I applied. I'll try to post the unfiltered footage when I can. The Nikon lenses don't having any noticable breathing that would prevent racking focus.

Piotr Wozniacki · July 30th, 2009, 10:54 AM

I can't wait for your unfiltered footage, Doug. Because like Alister, I can see a lot of breathing on the tree trunk!

Doug Jensen · July 30th, 2009, 04:42 PM

I uploaded a new version without smoothing. Whatever movement you see is due to the wind and my shakey hands. This particular lens is not very easy to rack focus.

This version o fhte video is HD and I added a grid to make it easier to see that there is virtually no breathing. I won't go so far as to say "none" even though I don't see any. Every lens probably has some breathing.

The point of this video is that Nikon SLR lenses do no exhibit any more breathing than any other lens. I know that is a true statement.

http://vimeo.com/5515816

Piotr Wozniacki · July 31st, 2009, 12:48 AM

Thanks Doug.

I guess it's comparable to the extent of breathing I'm getting from my Canon FD 50/1.4 I use with Letus adapter.

It's certainly less distracting than with my Canon FD zoom lens - but that's to be expected.

Max Allen · August 1st, 2009, 06:37 AM

So electronic movement of the rear lens element which eliminates the breathing is how EX performs the backfocus it appears. That's interesting. I'd still prefer manual backfocus vs. "auto" backfocus however.

Tip McPartland · August 1st, 2009, 01:03 PM

The first time I ran the auto back focus on my EX-3 I almost ruined a shoot I was doing the next day. It left the back focus so very far off that I had to work around it by pretty much avoiding any zooms.

So I made a giant back focus target (four pieces of paper taped together) and ran it on that. It gave great results, and it was kind of fun watching the thing happening.

I don't have the photoshop file on this computer, but if anyone wants to email me at tipsd9video@msn.com I can send it later. I did it in photoshop as I recall, but it would be even better in a vector graphics program like Illustrator or Corel.

Tip

July 28th, 2009, 03:33 AM	#1
Max Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NY Posts: 186	EX3 stock lens vs. 3rd party lenses on ramping and breathing The EX stock lens doesn't ramp or breathe, an excellent feature. Have any EX3 owners found this to be of any other 1/2" lenses from Fuji or Canon?

July 29th, 2009, 11:29 AM	#2
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	All traditional lenses will breathe to greater or lesser extent as focusing is achieved by moving the front lens element forwards and backwards. Most of the lower cost HD lenses breathe quite a lot. The ex lenses don't breathe as focusing is done by electronicaly moving the some of the rear lens elements. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

July 29th, 2009, 02:26 PM	#3
David Issko Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 393	My XS lens on my EX3 breathes quite a bit, but as Alister mentioned, that is because of the lens movement. Not a big deal for me. __________________ David Issko Edit 1 Video Productions

July 29th, 2009, 05:40 PM	#5
David C. Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: melb.vic.au Posts: 447	It does ramp, but the F-Stop reading doesn't show it. From about 10mm it ramps up from F1.9 to F2.8. Zoom in on something, and your spot meter doesn't move until you pass F2.8. __________________ www.davidwilliams.com.au

July 29th, 2009, 06:08 PM	#6
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	The Fujinon HSs18x5.5 lens that I use on my EX3 has no noticeable breathing or ramping at all. Unfortunately, it is a $12,000 lens. To dispute a thread on another forum (that shall remain nameless) about breathing with Nikon lenses, I did this quick test to show that breathing is not a problem using the Adaptimax and quality Nikon lenses. Adaptimax Lens Breathing Demonstration on Vimeo __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

July 30th, 2009, 01:52 AM	#7
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Doug I would suggest that your clip show quite a lot of breathing. The tree on the left moves a long way in to the left as it comes in to focus. I think what the clip shows is that the shallow depth of field created by the long focal length hides the breathing. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

July 30th, 2009, 05:12 AM	#8
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	That's not breathing. That's a side effect of the FCP smoothing filter I applied. I'll try to post the unfiltered footage when I can. The Nikon lenses don't having any noticable breathing that would prevent racking focus. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

July 30th, 2009, 10:54 AM	#9
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	I can't wait for your unfiltered footage, Doug. Because like Alister, I can see a lot of breathing on the tree trunk! __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

July 30th, 2009, 04:42 PM	#10
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	I uploaded a new version without smoothing. Whatever movement you see is due to the wind and my shakey hands. This particular lens is not very easy to rack focus. This version o fhte video is HD and I added a grid to make it easier to see that there is virtually no breathing. I won't go so far as to say "none" even though I don't see any. Every lens probably has some breathing. The point of this video is that Nikon SLR lenses do no exhibit any more breathing than any other lens. I know that is a true statement. http://vimeo.com/5515816 __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

July 31st, 2009, 12:48 AM	#11
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Thanks Doug. I guess it's comparable to the extent of breathing I'm getting from my Canon FD 50/1.4 I use with Letus adapter. It's certainly less distracting than with my Canon FD zoom lens - but that's to be expected. __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

August 1st, 2009, 06:37 AM	#12
Max Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NY Posts: 186	So electronic movement of the rear lens element which eliminates the breathing is how EX performs the backfocus it appears. That's interesting. I'd still prefer manual backfocus vs. "auto" backfocus however.

August 1st, 2009, 01:03 PM	#13
Tip McPartland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crestline, California Posts: 351	Back focus on EX-3 The first time I ran the auto back focus on my EX-3 I almost ruined a shoot I was doing the next day. It left the back focus so very far off that I had to work around it by pretty much avoiding any zooms. So I made a giant back focus target (four pieces of paper taped together) and ran it on that. It gave great results, and it was kind of fun watching the thing happening. I don't have the photoshop file on this computer, but if anyone wants to email me at tipsd9video@msn.com I can send it later. I did it in photoshop as I recall, but it would be even better in a vector graphics program like Illustrator or Corel. Tip