Help from the wedding guys at DVinfo.net

Jason Davenport · July 15th, 2009, 05:12 PM

I have to shoot b-roll of a Indian (Islamic) wedding for TLC with EX-3, I need to mic the bride and groom and was wondering, when is the best time to mic them up and where would you place mic transmitter on a wedding dress? I don't want to be too much of a bother, but I need their audio.

Vaughan Wood · July 15th, 2009, 05:48 PM

Don't know anyone that mics up the bride.
(You'd be a very game person to get under that dress!)- and they don't make white mics!

Just mic up the groom on his lapel and put the transmitter on the inside pocket of his coat.

The mic will do both of them as they face each other for their vows.

(hint - don't put the mic up too high on his lapel to get a more even cover between the two of them, somewhere about his breast level will stop his breath blowing into the mic and give the latitude to pick her up clearer as well).

2. Mic him up when you get to the ceremony and pull the mic off him as soon as he walks out the door afterwards. If he worries about recording everthing he says just say you have a mixer in the camera and you'll turn it on only for the vows, and I set up the Ex 1 this way. I leave the menu set at audio input Ch 1 as the last thing before the ceremony, so when the time comes to use the lapel mic, hit the menu button change from ch 1 input to ch 1/2 and hey presto, (unless your battery has died inthe meantime) lapel sound on channel two!

Cheers,
Vaughan

William Griffin · July 15th, 2009, 06:22 PM

When I did...Bridezilla's for the WE Network a few years back....all we did was to mike the groom and the preacher, as they were all very close to each other and we got very good audio..... groom on one channel and the preacher on the other.....

HTH...

Don Bloom · July 15th, 2009, 06:46 PM

there are numerous ways to place the body pak on a bride and yes, I have been under the dress once. Only once. The other time I had one of the BMs go under. Other than that it has to be installed on the back of the dress and even if put on the dress so it's between the body and the dress it'll show. There is one other way and that's on the thigh using a 'garter' type strap around the thigh to hold the pak. Yes it needs to go on the inside of the thigh.
HOWERVER, they do make white mics. It just depends on what unit your're using and how much you want to spend. Both Countryman and Tram offer white mics.
But in answer to your question, I go along with everyone else. Simply mic the groom carefully about 15 or 20 minutes prior to the ceremony, do a sound check and you should be good to go.

Kevin Duffey · July 15th, 2009, 07:12 PM

So how many of you guys mic the groom and use a wired lapel to a pocket recorder? I've heard of that being done too.. although to me it seems way too easy for the groom to accidentally turn it off and screw it up. Is it any cheaper? I think lapel wifi systems are like what $500 or so for two mics and the transceivers and the unit that plugs in to the camera?

I am also curious.. is the onboard audio system of cameras BETTER than using one of those portable audio recorders? I am still confused with the whole sync issue. I understand what it is..but how it happens seems odd. With todays cheap precision electronics, I can't imagine how the audio recorded on a separate unit can't be kept in timecode sync with the frames from a camera. That is.. when you drag the audio over to the timeline, why does it ever get out of sync?

Assuming you do this sort of setup, isn't syncing just a quick snip and slight reposition of audio? I know it's not as smooth as having it perfectly in sync.. but can't you just watch the video and match the sound to the movement.. when it starts to get off sync, snip the audio track and move it over a couple frames.. do that a few times and its all synced up? Or is there some other headache that I haven't experienced yet?

Thanks.

Don Bloom · July 15th, 2009, 08:03 PM

I'm old school but I can't see using a pocket recorder. Just me but I trust my wireless completely. I've never had a problem (at least not in the last 10 or so years).
It's more than sync issues for me. I HAVE to hear the audio I'm recording to make sure it's being recorded right or at all.
I would consider using a seperate recorder as a back up but really at this time I'm quite happy with my wireless so...
As for the onboard system, IMO the only thing it's good for is to reord the music being payed in the church. For example on my primary camera I use a hypercaroid BUT I kill it during the ceremony because I run both my wireless channels to the camera but I capture the music on the B camera with an AT897 shotgun and while shotguns generally suck indoors the msic is typically loud enough where it's not a problem.
Long answer short, don't try to capture a once in a lifetime event's audio with an on board mic cause you and the B&G will be very disappointed with lousy or no audio especially the vows.
Wireless or seperate recorder, your choice but don't cheap out on it. Audio is 70% of what you see. Great footage lousy audio= bad finished product...average footage really good/great audio =great finished product.

Kevin Duffey · July 15th, 2009, 10:23 PM

I am sorry Don..I didn't mean the on board mic, I meant using the wifi system and the receiver near you plugged in to the mic inputs on the camera, vs mic inputs on a separate recorder that does 24-bit audio and such. I am curious if most cameras have good mic input recording at 24-bit audio lvls. I suppose for voices it's not a huge deal regardless.. most voices are mid-range so you're not looking to record ultra lows or uber highs. I just thought having the wifi set up to a better recorder than what might be on the camera mic inputs would be worth the extra effort, if any, to sync up. For that matter, if you do that, do most of the decent $300+ audio recorders sync up nicely to video, or would you end up having to splice up the audio track a bit shuffling parts around a few frames to line it up?

Jason Davenport · July 15th, 2009, 10:50 PM

Thanks guys, groom and preacher. Perfect

Brian Barkley · July 16th, 2009, 09:40 AM

Is it a Hindu wedding? Catholic?

Hindu weddings are impossible. You could not pay me enough money to do another one.

Thomas Gregory · July 16th, 2009, 10:07 AM

Place an overhead mike, on a boom stand in the "tent" that they use for the ceremony. If you've ever done a Jewish wedding, you'll understand. Mike the officiant, and the groom as well. At times the bride sits too far away from the groom to get anything from his mike. Also, they really don't say too much during the ceremony.
Also, the bride is usually dressed in very colorful robes, (they all will be) and getting a mike on her might not be as tricky as you think.

or--

The wedding might be truly traditional and conservative, which means that the bride will say nothing at all, and is not even allowed to look up except to look at her new husband. Get all the details you can before the shoot.

In my experiences with this, I have always been annoyed by the family and guests getting in my way with thier own cameras. STAKE YOUR TURF beforehand, letting the family know what cannot be tolerated. If this is for a good TV show, they'll understand, and maybe even provide you with a "bodyguard" person to keep everyone back.
Hope this helps.

Jason Davenport · July 16th, 2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Barkley

Is it a Hindu wedding? Catholic?

Hindu weddings are impossible. You could not pay me enough money to do another one.

Just curious what was so terrible.

Max Allen · July 16th, 2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Davenport

I have to shoot b-roll of a Indian (Islamic) wedding for TLC with EX-3, I need to mic the bride and groom and was wondering, when is the best time to mic them up and where would you place mic transmitter on a wedding dress? I don't want to be too much of a bother, but I need their audio.

As Thomas and Brian keenly pointed out, find out how the ceremony is conducted. Don't presume that micing the officiant and groom is the way to go just because that works for Christian or Catholic ceremonies where the trio stands in a close triangle. Jason said it is an Islamic Indian ceremony. This may demand a different micing method.

I have seen at least one Muslim wedding where the bride and groom were about two feet from each other facing forward. The officiant was another 3 feet away from them facing the guests at an angle.

Here's a white mic.

Countryman | B6 Omnidirectional Lavalier | B6W4FF05WAK | B&H

Ilya Spektor · July 16th, 2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Davenport

Thanks guys, groom and preacher. Perfect

If you have 2 separate wireless systems (or one 2-channel) it is a good way to go. I myself have only one, so i would use it on the officiant, who does the most talking (if he already does not have one of his own, but if he has one, going into the house PA - then wireles will go on the groom). The other channel comes from a camera mic (I have Rode NTG-1) - I usually try to be as close as possible to the action - it is for the ambience sound and further syncing.

I also use external recorder (Zoom H4n), which can be hidden somewhere or placed on the table or chair near. If any wireless / wired mics are used in house, I place it on a stand into a speaker. Zoom H4n (I use 48k, 16bit - same as camera settings) actually does not have to be syncronized on a timeline - for 1hr continious recording it goes only 2 frames out of sync with my PD-170 (and, hopefully, with EX-1). Sync it in the middle of the hour, and it will be out of sync (-1) frame in the beginning of the clip, and (+1) frame - at the end. You will never notice it...

Good Luck!

July 15th, 2009, 05:12 PM	#1
Jason Davenport Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 131	Help from the wedding guys I have to shoot b-roll of a Indian (Islamic) wedding for TLC with EX-3, I need to mic the bride and groom and was wondering, when is the best time to mic them up and where would you place mic transmitter on a wedding dress? I don't want to be too much of a bother, but I need their audio.

July 15th, 2009, 06:22 PM	#3
William Griffin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 204	When I did...Bridezilla's for the WE Network a few years back....all we did was to mike the groom and the preacher, as they were all very close to each other and we got very good audio..... groom on one channel and the preacher on the other..... HTH... __________________ Bill Griffin SONY PXW-X320,PMW-300K2, LiveU LU-500,Sound Devices 552 Mixer,www.Dallascamguy.com

July 15th, 2009, 06:46 PM	#4
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	there are numerous ways to place the body pak on a bride and yes, I have been under the dress once. Only once. The other time I had one of the BMs go under. Other than that it has to be installed on the back of the dress and even if put on the dress so it's between the body and the dress it'll show. There is one other way and that's on the thigh using a 'garter' type strap around the thigh to hold the pak. Yes it needs to go on the inside of the thigh. HOWERVER, they do make white mics. It just depends on what unit your're using and how much you want to spend. Both Countryman and Tram offer white mics. But in answer to your question, I go along with everyone else. Simply mic the groom carefully about 15 or 20 minutes prior to the ceremony, do a sound check and you should be good to go. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

July 15th, 2009, 08:03 PM	#6
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	I'm old school but I can't see using a pocket recorder. Just me but I trust my wireless completely. I've never had a problem (at least not in the last 10 or so years). It's more than sync issues for me. I HAVE to hear the audio I'm recording to make sure it's being recorded right or at all. I would consider using a seperate recorder as a back up but really at this time I'm quite happy with my wireless so... As for the onboard system, IMO the only thing it's good for is to reord the music being payed in the church. For example on my primary camera I use a hypercaroid BUT I kill it during the ceremony because I run both my wireless channels to the camera but I capture the music on the B camera with an AT897 shotgun and while shotguns generally suck indoors the msic is typically loud enough where it's not a problem. Long answer short, don't try to capture a once in a lifetime event's audio with an on board mic cause you and the B&G will be very disappointed with lousy or no audio especially the vows. Wireless or seperate recorder, your choice but don't cheap out on it. Audio is 70% of what you see. Great footage lousy audio= bad finished product...average footage really good/great audio =great finished product. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

July 16th, 2009, 10:07 AM	#10
Thomas Gregory Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Youngstown, Ohio Posts: 33	Place an overhead mike, on a boom stand in the "tent" that they use for the ceremony. If you've ever done a Jewish wedding, you'll understand. Mike the officiant, and the groom as well. At times the bride sits too far away from the groom to get anything from his mike. Also, they really don't say too much during the ceremony. Also, the bride is usually dressed in very colorful robes, (they all will be) and getting a mike on her might not be as tricky as you think. or-- The wedding might be truly traditional and conservative, which means that the bride will say nothing at all, and is not even allowed to look up except to look at her new husband. Get all the details you can before the shoot. In my experiences with this, I have always been annoyed by the family and guests getting in my way with thier own cameras. STAKE YOUR TURF beforehand, letting the family know what cannot be tolerated. If this is for a good TV show, they'll understand, and maybe even provide you with a "bodyguard" person to keep everyone back. Hope this helps. __________________ www.gregoryfilms.com (keep the faith....better yet, pass it on!)

July 15th, 2009, 05:48 PM	#2
Vaughan Wood Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 278	Don't know anyone that mics up the bride. (You'd be a very game person to get under that dress!)- and they don't make white mics! Just mic up the groom on his lapel and put the transmitter on the inside pocket of his coat. The mic will do both of them as they face each other for their vows. (hint - don't put the mic up too high on his lapel to get a more even cover between the two of them, somewhere about his breast level will stop his breath blowing into the mic and give the latitude to pick her up clearer as well). 2. Mic him up when you get to the ceremony and pull the mic off him as soon as he walks out the door afterwards. If he worries about recording everthing he says just say you have a mixer in the camera and you'll turn it on only for the vows, and I set up the Ex 1 this way. I leave the menu set at audio input Ch 1 as the last thing before the ceremony, so when the time comes to use the lapel mic, hit the menu button change from ch 1 input to ch 1/2 and hey presto, (unless your battery has died inthe meantime) lapel sound on channel two! Cheers, Vaughan

July 15th, 2009, 07:12 PM	#5
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	So how many of you guys mic the groom and use a wired lapel to a pocket recorder? I've heard of that being done too.. although to me it seems way too easy for the groom to accidentally turn it off and screw it up. Is it any cheaper? I think lapel wifi systems are like what $500 or so for two mics and the transceivers and the unit that plugs in to the camera? I am also curious.. is the onboard audio system of cameras BETTER than using one of those portable audio recorders? I am still confused with the whole sync issue. I understand what it is..but how it happens seems odd. With todays cheap precision electronics, I can't imagine how the audio recorded on a separate unit can't be kept in timecode sync with the frames from a camera. That is.. when you drag the audio over to the timeline, why does it ever get out of sync? Assuming you do this sort of setup, isn't syncing just a quick snip and slight reposition of audio? I know it's not as smooth as having it perfectly in sync.. but can't you just watch the video and match the sound to the movement.. when it starts to get off sync, snip the audio track and move it over a couple frames.. do that a few times and its all synced up? Or is there some other headache that I haven't experienced yet? Thanks.

July 15th, 2009, 10:23 PM	#7
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	I am sorry Don..I didn't mean the on board mic, I meant using the wifi system and the receiver near you plugged in to the mic inputs on the camera, vs mic inputs on a separate recorder that does 24-bit audio and such. I am curious if most cameras have good mic input recording at 24-bit audio lvls. I suppose for voices it's not a huge deal regardless.. most voices are mid-range so you're not looking to record ultra lows or uber highs. I just thought having the wifi set up to a better recorder than what might be on the camera mic inputs would be worth the extra effort, if any, to sync up. For that matter, if you do that, do most of the decent $300+ audio recorders sync up nicely to video, or would you end up having to splice up the audio track a bit shuffling parts around a few frames to line it up?

July 15th, 2009, 10:50 PM	#8
Jason Davenport Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 131	Thanks guys, groom and preacher. Perfect

July 16th, 2009, 09:40 AM	#9
Brian Barkley Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 233	Is it a Hindu wedding? Catholic? Hindu weddings are impossible. You could not pay me enough money to do another one.