Graduated ND filter for the EX3 at DVinfo.net

Ofer Levy · June 13th, 2009, 05:49 PM

Hi all,

I need to film some landscapes with the EX3, stock lens and a Nikon 12-24mm lens. I am considering using a Graduated ND filter.
Any advice as to what I should consider when using this kind of filter, excellent quality brand, way to use it etc – are greatly appreciated.
My mattebox can fit only the 4x4 filters – hope its good enough.

Thanks,

Ofer Levy Photography

Ed Kukla · June 13th, 2009, 09:23 PM

all of your major brands should be fine

the choice is in how the graduaded nd is done. for long lenses you want a tight grad, for wide angle you need a softer transition. for the lens you are talking about, the normal grad should be fine

Vincent Oliver · June 14th, 2009, 12:47 AM

Avoid using circular grad filters, i.e. filters with a middle split. The best filters are the ones that require a holder and can slide up and down so you can place the graduated effect exactly where you want it. A 4x4 filter is not going to give you enough control for grad placement, you really need 130 x 170 filters take a look at the Cokin Pro series.

http://www.cokin.fr/ico15/ico15-haut.html?=#x

For coloured grad effects, you would be better off doing this in post, if you only want to use the ND grad for effect rather than controlling awkward exposure, then this too would be better in post.

Gareth Watkins · June 14th, 2009, 05:36 AM

Hi there
I've a couple of Tiffen 4x4 ND filters for landscapes and can't say I have ever had any issue... I use them in a TLS matte box and the results are excellent.
I often stack an ND grad with a polarizer in my case a Schneider Tru Pol 4x4 and it give some lovely dramatic scapes...

Regards
Gareth

Ofer Levy · June 14th, 2009, 06:49 AM

Thanks for your great input guys!

Olof Ekbergh · June 14th, 2009, 07:20 AM

I use 4x4 Tiffen ND grads, polorizer, graduated Sunset, and a few other enhancing filters filters in a Cavision Mattebox I originally got about 10 years ago for Betacam.

It works really well with EX3, 5DmkII and DSR500.

I have often blown clients away in the field by shooting a sunset that is plain Blah and adding the Orange to Yellow to Blue Tiffen Sunset filter in conjunction with Polarizer. They look in the field monitor and just cant believe the difference.

I also use a Blue to clear graduated filter a lot for dull skies.

It is true you can do a lot of this in post, I often make a custom filter in Photoshop to fix blown out sky or whatever. You can not add Polarizer very easily in post.

But it is really satisfying to play in the field, and I think it actually produces better results then a post fix. You definitely need a good field monitor to see the complete effect, currently I use a HD Marshall, or my old Sony 5" SD CRT which may only be SD but it is really accurate with color.

Ofer Levy · June 14th, 2009, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh

I use 4x4 Tiffen ND grads, polorizer, graduated Sunset, and a few other enhancing filters filters in a Cavision Mattebox I originally got about 10 years ago for Betacam.

It works really well with EX3, 5DmkII and DSR500.

I have often blown clients away in the field by shooting a sunset that is plain Blah and adding the Orange to Yellow to Blue Tiffen Sunset filter in conjunction with Polarizer. They look in the field monitor and just cant believe the difference.

I also use a Blue to clear graduated filter a lot for dull skies.

It is true you can do a lot of this in post, I often make a custom filter in Photoshop to fix blown out sky or whatever. You can not add Polarizer very easily in post.

But it is really satisfying to play in the field, and I think it actually produces better results then a post fix. You definitely need a good field monitor to see the complete effect, currently I use a HD Marshall, or my old Sony 5" SD CRT which may only be SD but it is really accurate with color.

Thanks Olof that's great! Sounds exciting and creative and I actually prefer getting the effects in the field as much as I can. Would you be so kind and let me know which are the "must have" filters I should start with?
I am doing only wildlife and I would like to get those stunning sunrises and sunsets although it should look natural as much as possible.
I also like to get the sky in reacher deep blue when shooting landscapes.

Thanks mate,

Cheers,
Ofer

Olof Ekbergh · June 14th, 2009, 11:10 AM

Ofer,

Here are a few suggestions for landscapes. I have an old Tiffen sunset filter I could not find on their site it goes from red to yellow to blue, I will pull it out to see if it has a number on it.

I also use Polarizer and Black Promist filters (very dreamy foggy look).

I will look in my bag for exact Numbers on those as well, when I am in the studio tomorrow.

The good 4x4's are expensive, but it is worth it. Cheaper filters tend to reflect back and forth if you stack them, even internally I think, so stay away from the "cheapies". I have afew and I never use them.

Make sure your Matte Box is parallel with your lens to minimize reflections.

Tiffen Filters:

4X4 WARM CIR ULTRA POL FILTER
Item Number: 44WUPC

4X4 CLR/CYAN 5 GRAD SE FILTER
Item Number: 44CGCY5S

4X4 CLR/SUNSET 3 GRAD SE FILTR
Item Number: 44CGSUN3

4X4 CLR/SUNSET 2 GRAD SE FILTR
Item Number: 44CGSUN2

4X4 CLR/TWILIGHT 2 GRAD FILTER
Item Number: 44CGTW2

Chris Clifton · June 14th, 2009, 11:46 AM

Or, these days you're missing out on a great tool by not shooting it raw in the field and using Magic Bullet grads in post. You can also adjust DOF in post with MB (which is now called Red Giant). This way, you can do virtually anything to any degree in any color. It's a great option and makes for great control. Purist film guys probably won't agree, but that's okay.

Leonard Levy · June 14th, 2009, 01:13 PM

If you are using grads to control exposure in the sky, you cannot do that in post that in post if you had to overexpsoe the sky to get other detail.

Re 4x4's: I prefer to use vertical 4x5.5 filters as you have more room to adjust where the grad falls. But you need trays and a matte box that will take 4x5.5's

Ofer Levy · June 14th, 2009, 04:27 PM

Thanks again, Olof, Chris and Leonard! I have no experience with filters and I hear what is said about the Magic Bullet so maybe some combination between the techniques is the way to go - I will just have to try.
I also agree with Steve that an effect should be so subtle that it will look natural or else it misses the point.

Cheers,
Ofer Levy Photography

Olof Ekbergh · June 14th, 2009, 05:42 PM

There are tons of things you can do in post.

After getting into using Color, I have really changed the way I shoot.

I set the camera up to capture really neutral, low contrast. It does not look good in the field. But you can really work wonders in Color later.

It all depends on what you are doing. If you are just hired to shoot and hand of tape/files.
Then maybe you want to make the stuff look really great raw, unless you know someone who really knows how to grade is going to work your shots.

It is also true that you can't fix a blown out sky or simulate polarizer in post. Or fix the shot of the building with sun hitting one side and deep shade on the other. Filters are a video answer to HDR photos. You can't shoot different exposures and combine later in post (OK maybe you can now, but it is not easy). For those situations filters are great. Camera profiles are also worth learning.

There are lots of tools, the more of them you have and know how to use, the better shooter/DP/grader/editor you will be.

Ofer Levy · June 14th, 2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh

There are tons of things you can do in post.

After getting into using Color, I have really changed the way I shoot.

I set the camera up to capture really neutral, low contrast. It does not look good in the field. But you can really work wonders in Color later.

It all depends on what you are doing. If you are just hired to shoot and hand of tape/files.
Then maybe you want to make the stuff look really great raw, unless you know someone who really knows how to grade is going to work your shots.

It is also true that you can't fix a blown out sky or simulate polarizer in post. Or fix the shot of the building with sun hitting one side and deep shade on the other. Filters are a video answer to HDR photos. You can't shoot different exposures and combine later in post (OK maybe you can now, but it is not easy). For those situations filters are great. Camera profiles are also worth learning.

There are lots of tools, the more of them you have and know how to use, the better shooter/DP/grader/editor you will be.

Thanks Olof, I only do wildlife and the quality of the image is my first consideration.
Thanks again,

regards,

Ofer

June 13th, 2009, 05:49 PM	#1
Ofer Levy Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney-Australia Posts: 443	Graduated ND filter for the EX3 Hi all, I need to film some landscapes with the EX3, stock lens and a Nikon 12-24mm lens. I am considering using a Graduated ND filter. Any advice as to what I should consider when using this kind of filter, excellent quality brand, way to use it etc – are greatly appreciated. My mattebox can fit only the 4x4 filters – hope its good enough. Thanks, Ofer Levy Photography

June 14th, 2009, 12:47 AM	#3
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	Avoid using circular grad filters, i.e. filters with a middle split. The best filters are the ones that require a holder and can slide up and down so you can place the graduated effect exactly where you want it. A 4x4 filter is not going to give you enough control for grad placement, you really need 130 x 170 filters take a look at the Cokin Pro series. http://www.cokin.fr/ico15/ico15-haut.html?=#x For coloured grad effects, you would be better off doing this in post, if you only want to use the ND grad for effect rather than controlling awkward exposure, then this too would be better in post. __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

June 14th, 2009, 05:36 AM	#4
Gareth Watkins Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: France Posts: 578	Hi there I've a couple of Tiffen 4x4 ND filters for landscapes and can't say I have ever had any issue... I use them in a TLS matte box and the results are excellent. I often stack an ND grad with a polarizer in my case a Schneider Tru Pol 4x4 and it give some lovely dramatic scapes... Regards Gareth __________________ www.gwenllyn.com

June 14th, 2009, 11:46 AM	#9
Chris Clifton Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 56	Post Grads Or, these days you're missing out on a great tool by not shooting it raw in the field and using Magic Bullet grads in post. You can also adjust DOF in post with MB (which is now called Red Giant). This way, you can do virtually anything to any degree in any color. It's a great option and makes for great control. Purist film guys probably won't agree, but that's okay.

June 13th, 2009, 09:23 PM	#2
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	all of your major brands should be fine the choice is in how the graduaded nd is done. for long lenses you want a tight grad, for wide angle you need a softer transition. for the lens you are talking about, the normal grad should be fine

June 14th, 2009, 06:49 AM	#5
Ofer Levy Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney-Australia Posts: 443	Thanks for your great input guys!

June 14th, 2009, 07:20 AM	#6
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	I use 4x4 Tiffen ND grads, polorizer, graduated Sunset, and a few other enhancing filters filters in a Cavision Mattebox I originally got about 10 years ago for Betacam. It works really well with EX3, 5DmkII and DSR500. I have often blown clients away in the field by shooting a sunset that is plain Blah and adding the Orange to Yellow to Blue Tiffen Sunset filter in conjunction with Polarizer. They look in the field monitor and just cant believe the difference. I also use a Blue to clear graduated filter a lot for dull skies. It is true you can do a lot of this in post, I often make a custom filter in Photoshop to fix blown out sky or whatever. You can not add Polarizer very easily in post. But it is really satisfying to play in the field, and I think it actually produces better results then a post fix. You definitely need a good field monitor to see the complete effect, currently I use a HD Marshall, or my old Sony 5" SD CRT which may only be SD but it is really accurate with color.

June 14th, 2009, 11:10 AM	#8
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	Ofer, Here are a few suggestions for landscapes. I have an old Tiffen sunset filter I could not find on their site it goes from red to yellow to blue, I will pull it out to see if it has a number on it. I also use Polarizer and Black Promist filters (very dreamy foggy look). I will look in my bag for exact Numbers on those as well, when I am in the studio tomorrow. The good 4x4's are expensive, but it is worth it. Cheaper filters tend to reflect back and forth if you stack them, even internally I think, so stay away from the "cheapies". I have afew and I never use them. Make sure your Matte Box is parallel with your lens to minimize reflections. Tiffen Filters: 4X4 WARM CIR ULTRA POL FILTER Item Number: 44WUPC 4X4 CLR/CYAN 5 GRAD SE FILTER Item Number: 44CGCY5S 4X4 CLR/SUNSET 3 GRAD SE FILTR Item Number: 44CGSUN3 4X4 CLR/SUNSET 2 GRAD SE FILTR Item Number: 44CGSUN2 4X4 CLR/TWILIGHT 2 GRAD FILTER Item Number: 44CGTW2

June 14th, 2009, 01:13 PM	#10
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	If you are using grads to control exposure in the sky, you cannot do that in post that in post if you had to overexpsoe the sky to get other detail. Re 4x4's: I prefer to use vertical 4x5.5 filters as you have more room to adjust where the grad falls. But you need trays and a matte box that will take 4x5.5's

June 14th, 2009, 04:27 PM	#11
Ofer Levy Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney-Australia Posts: 443	Thanks again, Olof, Chris and Leonard! I have no experience with filters and I hear what is said about the Magic Bullet so maybe some combination between the techniques is the way to go - I will just have to try. I also agree with Steve that an effect should be so subtle that it will look natural or else it misses the point. Cheers, Ofer Levy Photography

June 14th, 2009, 05:42 PM	#12
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	There are tons of things you can do in post. After getting into using Color, I have really changed the way I shoot. I set the camera up to capture really neutral, low contrast. It does not look good in the field. But you can really work wonders in Color later. It all depends on what you are doing. If you are just hired to shoot and hand of tape/files. Then maybe you want to make the stuff look really great raw, unless you know someone who really knows how to grade is going to work your shots. It is also true that you can't fix a blown out sky or simulate polarizer in post. Or fix the shot of the building with sun hitting one side and deep shade on the other. Filters are a video answer to HDR photos. You can't shoot different exposures and combine later in post (OK maybe you can now, but it is not easy). For those situations filters are great. Camera profiles are also worth learning. There are lots of tools, the more of them you have and know how to use, the better shooter/DP/grader/editor you will be.