stock with EX camera at DVinfo.net

Ed Kukla · May 15th, 2009, 05:45 PM

I have the opportunity to acquire some unique stock footage with my EX camera.

The whole MXF, wrapper, .mov, Avid, FCP, Premiere, etc stuff is a bit confusing. I'll need to collect this footage into a format that will be easily distributed in full hi-rez files for use on any edit system. I don't want to get tied down with a format that won't be easily injested by any system. so how do I store my files to accomplish this?

Craig Seeman · May 15th, 2009, 11:08 PM

Why should this be confusing at all?

Save the source BPAV and allow the editor to wrap to MXF, MOV or use as MP4 depending on their NLE of choice.

Mitchell Lewis · May 16th, 2009, 08:59 AM

^^^What Craig said^^^^ The BPAV folder is the format the camera uses to store your clips on the SxS card. Save that folder (in it's entirety) and you'll have the best chances at being future-proof.

Ed Kukla · May 17th, 2009, 03:54 AM

with stock photography, who knows what the editor will want or accept. I'm already seeing resistance to using my EX by some editors. Yes, I think they are stupid, but I can't fix stupid.

So I want to be able to give any client worldwide a simple video clip in full 1080P video they can use without trying to explain rewrapping files they may not understand or know about.

KISS.

George Kroonder · May 17th, 2009, 09:08 AM

But the answer is simple; just have all editing software standardize on one format for HD, across platforms. But wait... they all already support a common format: uncompressed!

Problem solved.

As an aside. Editors that don't know how to handle footage from different sources are no pros in my book. Offer a conversion service for them. Then you can use the native format for your footage.

And the native compressed 35Mb/s MPEG2 may not be up to par for all stock footage buyers/retailers to fit into the highest HD categories. The best way to get around that is to use an external recorder from the SDI like the CD (nano)Flash or the AJA Ki Pro.

George.

Ed Kukla · May 17th, 2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Kroonder

As an aside. Editors that don't know how to handle footage from different sources are no pros in my book. Offer a conversion service for them. Then you can use the native format for your footage.

And the native compressed 35Mb/s MPEG2 may not be up to par for all stock footage buyers/retailers to fit into the highest HD categories. The best way to get around that is to use an external recorder from the SDI like the CD (nano)Flash or the AJA Ki Pro.

George.

Doesn't matter if they are pro's or not...all that matters is if they will buy the footage.

As for the highest categories, I can't please all the people all the time. if they need the footage, they'll buy. I could use the same logic on the file formats but I'm trying to eliminate that from the equasion.

Am I to understand that there is no way to get the full 1080p without the bpav folder and all the unwrapping stuff that comes with it?

Nanoflash is not in the equasion, sorry.

Craig Seeman · May 17th, 2009, 06:15 PM

Ed this is really a "no win" situation.

You can certainly convert to 10 bit Uncompressed 4:2:2 but you get complaints about the large file size and .mov vs .avi.

Then if they need to downconvert to something else the file is going to take yet another quality hit.

You could convert to Apple Pro Res since Apple now has a free decoder for Windows. That'll give you a smaller file but Windows editors may not be aware of the free plugin.

You could convert to XDCAM HD .mxf but you're dropping the file aspect ratio from 1920x1080 to 1440x1080.

Convert from XDCAM EX to DVCProHD and you're going to have a quality hit.

A PROFESSIONAL editor will want the MASTER file and do their own conversion as needed.

You can't offer what doesn't exist. All you can do as offer to do a file conversion as an add on expense. Even the NASA charges for dubs for tapes of their public domain video.

Craig Seeman · May 17th, 2009, 06:21 PM

Then there's Animation codec or Targa files. The After Effects folks will love you and you'll be cursed by everyone else.

George Kroonder · May 18th, 2009, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kukla

I can't please all the people all the time. if they need the footage, they'll buy. I could use the same logic on the file formats but I'm trying to eliminate that from the equation.

Unless your target customers really want one specific format over an other, you can't eliminate that. And if they do, you just answered your own question.

Using something other than the native codec+format will always result in (some) loss and/or (storage) inefficiencies. It can also be time-consuming.

You can't go better than native; rewrap to either mxf/mov or both and all more-or-less current applications will be able to work with it directly. It is fairly common to provide proxy-size files as quicktime.

George.

Ed Kukla · May 18th, 2009, 06:45 PM

"rewrap to either mxf/mov or both"

I have no post experience so even this is not entirely clear to me.

If I take an original clip with the bpav folders and re-wrap to a .mov what happens to the picture quality? Can't all common edit programs today use this .mov format?

If I retain all the information within the bpav folders, can I do a re-wrap to whatever file format is requested with the clip browser? And burn that to a DVD or Blu-ray disc for distro to the buyer?

Bob Kerner · May 18th, 2009, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kukla

"rewrap to either mxf/mov or both"

I have no post experience so even this is not entirely clear to me.

If I take an original clip with the bpav folders and re-wrap to a .mov what happens to the picture quality? Can't all common edit programs today use this .mov format?

If I retain all the information within the bpav folders, can I do a re-wrap to whatever file format is requested with the clip browser? And burn that to a DVD or Blu-ray disc for distro to the buyer?

The short answer is yes, you can re-wrap to your heart's content. But why bother? Posts 2 and 3 above are spot on. There should be no need for you to do any of this, as the people buying your footage will want the original file that came out of your camera. I don't profess to have the pro experience that Craig and Mitch have, but the few times I've been in this predicament the people procurring my footage directed me to "do nothing" with it..send them the original tapes and or files.

I make an archival copy of all my BPAV folders as I pull them off the SxS card. They get labeled and put on a hard drive. I edit from a separate copy. You can send that BPAV folder to whomever is buying your footage and they can ingest into into their system however they like.

David Issko · May 19th, 2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kerner

.

I make an archival copy of all my BPAV folders as I pull them off the SxS card. They get labeled and put on a hard drive. I edit from a separate copy. You can send that BPAV folder to whomever is buying your footage and they can ingest into into their system however they like.

That's what I do as well. If the 'editor' is resistant to the current video formats of today, then he is not a real editor at all!!!! He needs to be in touch with what is going on in the world of video and a good editor will ALWAYS find a way.

Best wishes

May 15th, 2009, 05:45 PM	#1
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	stock with EX camera I have the opportunity to acquire some unique stock footage with my EX camera. The whole MXF, wrapper, .mov, Avid, FCP, Premiere, etc stuff is a bit confusing. I'll need to collect this footage into a format that will be easily distributed in full hi-rez files for use on any edit system. I don't want to get tied down with a format that won't be easily injested by any system. so how do I store my files to accomplish this?

May 16th, 2009, 08:59 AM	#3
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	^^^What Craig said^^^^ The BPAV folder is the format the camera uses to store your clips on the SxS card. Save that folder (in it's entirety) and you'll have the best chances at being future-proof. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

May 15th, 2009, 11:08 PM	#2
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Why should this be confusing at all? Save the source BPAV and allow the editor to wrap to MXF, MOV or use as MP4 depending on their NLE of choice.

May 17th, 2009, 03:54 AM	#4
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	with stock photography, who knows what the editor will want or accept. I'm already seeing resistance to using my EX by some editors. Yes, I think they are stupid, but I can't fix stupid. So I want to be able to give any client worldwide a simple video clip in full 1080P video they can use without trying to explain rewrapping files they may not understand or know about. KISS.

May 17th, 2009, 09:08 AM	#5
George Kroonder Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Utrecht, NL \| Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 612	But the answer is simple; just have all editing software standardize on one format for HD, across platforms. But wait... they all already support a common format: uncompressed! Problem solved. As an aside. Editors that don't know how to handle footage from different sources are no pros in my book. Offer a conversion service for them. Then you can use the native format for your footage. And the native compressed 35Mb/s MPEG2 may not be up to par for all stock footage buyers/retailers to fit into the highest HD categories. The best way to get around that is to use an external recorder from the SDI like the CD (nano)Flash or the AJA Ki Pro. George.

May 17th, 2009, 06:15 PM	#7
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Ed this is really a "no win" situation. You can certainly convert to 10 bit Uncompressed 4:2:2 but you get complaints about the large file size and .mov vs .avi. Then if they need to downconvert to something else the file is going to take yet another quality hit. You could convert to Apple Pro Res since Apple now has a free decoder for Windows. That'll give you a smaller file but Windows editors may not be aware of the free plugin. You could convert to XDCAM HD .mxf but you're dropping the file aspect ratio from 1920x1080 to 1440x1080. Convert from XDCAM EX to DVCProHD and you're going to have a quality hit. A PROFESSIONAL editor will want the MASTER file and do their own conversion as needed. You can't offer what doesn't exist. All you can do as offer to do a file conversion as an add on expense. Even the NASA charges for dubs for tapes of their public domain video.

May 17th, 2009, 06:21 PM	#8
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Then there's Animation codec or Targa files. The After Effects folks will love you and you'll be cursed by everyone else.

May 18th, 2009, 06:45 PM	#10
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	"rewrap to either mxf/mov or both" I have no post experience so even this is not entirely clear to me. If I take an original clip with the bpav folders and re-wrap to a .mov what happens to the picture quality? Can't all common edit programs today use this .mov format? If I retain all the information within the bpav folders, can I do a re-wrap to whatever file format is requested with the clip browser? And burn that to a DVD or Blu-ray disc for distro to the buyer?