pc vs mac

Jason Bodnar · April 25th, 2009, 02:09 AM

I can second Craigs first response.. I use both Vegas and FCS2 on a Mac Pro and a MBP by way of bootcamp and running a copy of Windows just for Vegas and it works great!!! I also have a two PC's running Vegas and can tell you if you can afford to do so get the Mac and have the best of both worlds!!

Geoff Addis · April 25th, 2009, 02:17 AM

I have both FCP and Edius working via Bootcamp on the same Macpro. Edius is way ahead of FCP as far as real time previewing and rendering is concerned. If you fit the Edius NX card you will get full quality playback unlike FCP's feeble dyanamic efforts. I strongly suggest that you download a 30 day trial copy of Edius and see how you get on with it. Having said that,FCS does give you some useful extras, but if you stick with Edius on a PC you can also fit the FireCoder Blu card that will give you better than realtime rendering to MPEG2 and H264 for Bluay.

Brian Luce · April 25th, 2009, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Addis

. Edius is way ahead of FCP as far as real time previewing and rendering is concerned.

I'm trying to learn FCP, seems like Vegas also required less rendering than FCP.

Dean Sensui · April 25th, 2009, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver

I wonder if Rembrandt or Degas ever entered into a debate of which brush is better?

I bet they did! :-)

Allen Minor · April 25th, 2009, 08:43 AM

Thanks for all of the great advice. The one theme that flows through all of this is to experiment and find the system that will work best for me. And so I will.

Keith Moreau · April 25th, 2009, 09:06 AM

I was wondering if and when my provocative comments might be responded to...

I think users from both sides of the fence will exhibit some 'brand loyalty,' it's only natural. We tend to support what we're most familiar with...

Craig, I didn't want to emphasize the 'elite' aspect that Mac users sometimes portray, but honestly, I do think of my Mac and the Mac OS as a luxury car that feels like an extension of me. I think my 'orphan step-child' comment was a bit extreme, and probably has less relevance than it did a few years ago when Mac had less market share and had less virtualization options such as bootcamp, Parallels, or Fusion. In the creative professional world, I've heard that the Mac has about 50% of the market share, this includes video, graphics, and sound production, so in that arena Mac users are certainly not 'orphans.' However in the non-creative standard business office, we still are, but it doesn't seem to matter as much nowadays.

Vincent correctly expresses that all computers are just powerful calculators, which is true, but they are also powerful tools. Some tools may fit in the hand or compliment the creative process better than others. I think that this forum and pretty much all tech forums are what this is all about, to discuss the merits of the tools, such as the XDCAM EX, which is also a 'tool.' We chose the EX because for us it is a better tool, and then we discuss how to get the most out of the tool here and help solve each other's problems.

Brian and Geoff, I do think that FCP and the Mac OS could certainly improve in it's use of hardware acceleration. I think that the next version of FCP should try to address AVCHD and better use of the GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) found on your video card -it's is a much more efficient and powerful way to render. Apple is touting the upcoming Mac OS X, 10.6 "Snow Leopard" to leverage the GPU better, so that software can tap into this power more easily. Perhaps the next version of FCP, which is a bit overdue, will use Mac OS 10.6 Snow Leopard in this way. That being said, for certain applications, such as Geoff suggests, the PC is probably faster.

That all being said, as Jason recommends, if you can afford it, because the Mac can run Windows, it is the best of both worlds.

Vincent Oliver · April 25th, 2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Moreau

That all being said, as Jason recommends, if you can afford it, because the Mac can run Windows, it is the best of both worlds.

A good argument, but don't forget you have to buy software to run on either Windows or Mac. Do you want to run Photoshop under Windows or Apple, Final Cut will only run on a Mac. Quite frankly I do not see the point of having a non software compatible dual operating system.

You may have guessed that I am a Windows user, but I also have two Apple Macs. As I said they are just glorified calculators - but we still love them. :-)

Craig Seeman · April 25th, 2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Quite frankly I do not see the point of having a non software compatible dual operating system.

With virtualization you can drag and drop between apps. You can edit in FCP (Mac OS) and drag your file to to FME (Windows OS) and stream having both OS open at the same time.

As long as the output files are non proprietary, programs on both OS can be open and files can be moved back and forth.

I recommend Mac because you have access to BOTH OSs and, with bootcamp, if you need to be Windows only for a time (working in a Windows NLE with a complete Windows workflow) you can do that.

Yes a computer is just a calculator and I want that calculator to have no limits doing any equation whether it be Mac OS, Window OS, a flavor of Unix. Let's differentiate a Mac computer from the Mac OS. It's simply a box and can run Windows like any other box using the very same hardware, drivers, etc. When I can get two for the price of one that makes economical and organizational sense.

Being Windows only when, as Keith alludes to, 50% of the "creatives" are using Macs and much of that software is MAC OS ONLY may be too restrictive for some.

BTW when we're talking "boxes" not OS, the Mac is about the 4th largest PC box maker. It's a good box. It's designed specifically to include most of what a typical creative would need.

And as I said before, my quite personal experience is that there's less downtime on a Mac and that is KEY for me as a professional. No fighter viruses, no driver compatibility issues, no registry issues. The fastest race car in the world doesn't get you to the finish line if it hits a wall often enough to cost you trouble shooting time. For me, biggest issue is reliability.

Vincent Oliver · April 25th, 2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

Being Windows only when, as Keith alludes to, 50% of the "creatives" are using Macs and much of that software is MAC OS ONLY may be too restrictive for some.

BTW when we're talking "boxes" not OS, the Mac is about the 4th largest PC box maker. It's a good box. It's designed specifically to include most of what a typical creative would need.

Well put! I must get myself another Mac and I too can become one of the "Creative" users, but hold on I have two of them. The only trouble is that Apple updates its software so often that now I can only run old software on it. Perhaps I will just have to leave my Macs in the loft.

The bottom line is that all computers have their own share of problems. Yes, I love the box too. My fist wife was very beautiful, but below the surface there was just another woman with the same problems as anyone else.

Have a good weekend

Craig Seeman · April 25th, 2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver

The only trouble is that Apple updates its software so often that now I can only run old software on it.

Either a serious misstatement or a very odd perception.

Mac OS receives a major update about every 2 years. Final Cut receives a major update about every 2 years. Maybe that's "so often" for you but I prefer growing feature sets personally. I prefer software that improves to take advantage as hardware improves.
And one doesn't HAVE to update ESPECIALLY with a Mac. As I said, my 8 year old Mac cuts DV just fine using FCP 5 (and OS 10.3.9 which is two versions back).

And what does Mac software have to do with Mac computer which can run Windows. I need BOTH OSs and I do it on ONE box and even drag and drop files between them.

Apparently no one has ever handed you a file from a Mac system. All you have to do is look at the forum for people asking what to do on Windows only boxes with EX .mov files or Apple ProRes files. There actually are Windows solutions for BOTH issues but having ONE box that does both solves all these issues. I'm a business and I need to handle WHATEVER the client gives me and it's likely that 50% of the time it came from a Mac.

These days, it's the Windows only box that may be "isolated."

Ray Bell · April 25th, 2009, 11:52 AM

The Video Guys have an article that might be of interest...

Videoguys' DIY 7: Intel Core i7 8-core

To me it seems like there are more plugins/software available
for a PC... I do like some of the hardware with a MAC but
I also like blu ray and that isn't a MAC thing...

Craig Seeman · April 25th, 2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Bell

The Video Guys have an article that might be of interest...

Videoguys' DIY 7: Intel Core i7 8-core

To me it seems like there are more plugins/software available
for a PC... I do like some of the hardware with a MAC but
I also like blu ray and that isn't a MAC thing...

Blue-ray data on Mac OS, already there. Blue-ray video via Roxio Toast and Adobe Encore. Blue-ray video playback non existent though. Part of it is the DRM issue which may well be one of the reasons why Vista may have issues.

Plugins? Given the pervasive nature of FCP in the Broadcast arena that market is certainly satisfied. Need Windows specific run Windows on the Mac hardware (it's JUST PC HARDWARE).

DIY great if you can invest the time and trouble shoot the potential hardware and driver conflicts. As a business DOWNTIME is LOST INCOME.

More is NOT BETTER. It's simply MORE.

Windows would win if there's something Windows ONLY that I need. It can and does happen but it's rare. Adobe FME Windows Only, Expressions Encode Windows Only. I can run them on my Mac hardware and no time/money lost with DIY.

In a video/multimedia world which is 50/50. I need both 50s for my business.

One can certainly argue either OS given that the software you want/need might be specific only to one or the other OS. I can't see an argument for using hardware that can't handle both OSs though.

I LIKE Mac OS, I NEED Windows OS. With Mac hardware I can have BOTH . . . even both open at THE SAME TIME.

Vincent Oliver · April 25th, 2009, 12:28 PM

Craig,

You obviously love your Mac and no doubt it serves you well. I have no objections to Macs either. I just don't like the "we are the creative folk" attitude from many Mac users (no implication implied). I use computers as a means to an end, and quiet frankly I don't care if it is a Mac or PC, as long as it does the job.

"Apparently no one has ever handed you a file from a Mac system."

Apparently not - if you say so.

Shall we just agree to disagree and stay friends, this debate is not going to get either of us anywhere.

Tell me about what you have been shooting with your EX1/3, that is of more interest to me.

All the best

Vincent

Craig Seeman · April 25th, 2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver

I just don't like the "we are the creative folk" attitude from many Mac users

Creative as an industry not an attitude. Creative = CONTENT CREATION.

I get FILES and RESOURCES from any number of places, people, businesses, media facilities. Many times such files and resources are Mac specific such as codecs that only exist in FCP (EX .mov or ApplePro Res and scores of others) or bits of Apple Keynote presentations, etc.

If one is entirely self contained one can go with whatever one likes. If one deals with the Content Creation world, a large number of incoming resources may either need or work best on Mac software. If you get stuff from the outside world Mac hardware can run BOTH OSs so I have access to Mac only AND Windows only software . . . on ONE computer.

Again don't confuse OS with hardware. I need BOTH OSs and only one Computer Hardware Company provides that solution.

Vincent Oliver · April 25th, 2009, 03:12 PM

Sounds good Craig, I'll get one on Monday.

Have a good weekend

April 25th, 2009, 08:43 AM	#20
Allen Minor Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Hamilton, OH Posts: 50	Decisions Thanks for all of the great advice. The one theme that flows through all of this is to experiment and find the system that will work best for me. And so I will. __________________ tamerlane57

April 25th, 2009, 12:28 PM	#28
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	Craig, You obviously love your Mac and no doubt it serves you well. I have no objections to Macs either. I just don't like the "we are the creative folk" attitude from many Mac users (no implication implied). I use computers as a means to an end, and quiet frankly I don't care if it is a Mac or PC, as long as it does the job. "Apparently no one has ever handed you a file from a Mac system." Apparently not - if you say so. Shall we just agree to disagree and stay friends, this debate is not going to get either of us anywhere. Tell me about what you have been shooting with your EX1/3, that is of more interest to me. All the best Vincent __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

April 25th, 2009, 03:12 PM	#30
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	Sounds good Craig, I'll get one on Monday. Have a good weekend __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

April 25th, 2009, 02:09 AM	#16
Jason Bodnar Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 376	I can second Craigs first response.. I use both Vegas and FCS2 on a Mac Pro and a MBP by way of bootcamp and running a copy of Windows just for Vegas and it works great!!! I also have a two PC's running Vegas and can tell you if you can afford to do so get the Mac and have the best of both worlds!!

April 25th, 2009, 02:17 AM	#17
Geoff Addis Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 116	I have both FCP and Edius working via Bootcamp on the same Macpro. Edius is way ahead of FCP as far as real time previewing and rendering is concerned. If you fit the Edius NX card you will get full quality playback unlike FCP's feeble dyanamic efforts. I strongly suggest that you download a 30 day trial copy of Edius and see how you get on with it. Having said that,FCS does give you some useful extras, but if you stick with Edius on a PC you can also fit the FireCoder Blu card that will give you better than realtime rendering to MPEG2 and H264 for Bluay.

April 25th, 2009, 09:06 AM	#21
Keith Moreau Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brisbane, California Posts: 530	I was wondering if and when my provocative comments might be responded to... I think users from both sides of the fence will exhibit some 'brand loyalty,' it's only natural. We tend to support what we're most familiar with... Craig, I didn't want to emphasize the 'elite' aspect that Mac users sometimes portray, but honestly, I do think of my Mac and the Mac OS as a luxury car that feels like an extension of me. I think my 'orphan step-child' comment was a bit extreme, and probably has less relevance than it did a few years ago when Mac had less market share and had less virtualization options such as bootcamp, Parallels, or Fusion. In the creative professional world, I've heard that the Mac has about 50% of the market share, this includes video, graphics, and sound production, so in that arena Mac users are certainly not 'orphans.' However in the non-creative standard business office, we still are, but it doesn't seem to matter as much nowadays. Vincent correctly expresses that all computers are just powerful calculators, which is true, but they are also powerful tools. Some tools may fit in the hand or compliment the creative process better than others. I think that this forum and pretty much all tech forums are what this is all about, to discuss the merits of the tools, such as the XDCAM EX, which is also a 'tool.' We chose the EX because for us it is a better tool, and then we discuss how to get the most out of the tool here and help solve each other's problems. Brian and Geoff, I do think that FCP and the Mac OS could certainly improve in it's use of hardware acceleration. I think that the next version of FCP should try to address AVCHD and better use of the GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) found on your video card -it's is a much more efficient and powerful way to render. Apple is touting the upcoming Mac OS X, 10.6 "Snow Leopard" to leverage the GPU better, so that software can tap into this power more easily. Perhaps the next version of FCP, which is a bit overdue, will use Mac OS 10.6 Snow Leopard in this way. That being said, for certain applications, such as Geoff suggests, the PC is probably faster. That all being said, as Jason recommends, if you can afford it, because the Mac can run Windows, it is the best of both worlds.

April 25th, 2009, 11:52 AM	#26
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	The Video Guys have an article that might be of interest... Videoguys' DIY 7: Intel Core i7 8-core To me it seems like there are more plugins/software available for a PC... I do like some of the hardware with a MAC but I also like blu ray and that isn't a MAC thing...