Very poor 25mb/sec EX1 > DVD at DVinfo.net

Greg Hawkes · April 22nd, 2009, 08:01 AM

Help.
I normally film and edit from 35mb/sec clips 720P/50 the resultant PAL DVD is very good.
A colleague of mine asked me to use my cameras to film a dance show last weekend but because he expected to edit the clilps on his system (Storm/Premiere 6.5) he was hoping to feed the av out from the camera and capture the stream and edit as normal.

Please bear with me I am getting there.

As many of you may know the SD from the av socket is not good enough to edit. (motion artifacts) so I will now be using my Sony Vegas system to edit directly from the mxf files from the cards.

Before he arrives (Tomorrow Thus) to do the edit. I have been editing the rehearsal clipas, same settings as above and the DVD I have produced is very poor showing the motion artifacts that can be seen when viewing the AV out pictures.
On the timeline preview (good quality but not full size there is no evidence of this problem.

I believe the difficulties I am having is due to the mpeg conversion from the 1440 x 1080 pictures.

Any ideas anybody?
Sony silver support team are looking at the DVD I have made today but I fear they may be slow to respond.

Paul Kellett · April 22nd, 2009, 08:31 AM

Greg it's not the fact that you're shooting in sp mode and using vegas because i also use vegas and used to shoot in sp mode, (before cheap cards came along i had to get the most from my 4 sxs cards), and my dvd's used to look fine.
What motion artifacts are you seeing ? Do you have to look hard to see them or are they easy to spot, i mean can joe public see the artifacts or are you being picky because you look for these things, as most of us do ?

Paul.

Greg Hawkes · April 22nd, 2009, 11:03 AM

Hi Paul thanks for the reply. The artifacts are extremely obvious and totally unaceptable.
I took a DVD in to Sony at Basingstoke today and they have replied saying it is a problem with conversion from 1440 x 1080 and Vegas.

I tried even printing a short sequence to DVCAM tape same problem.

Paul Newman · April 22nd, 2009, 11:47 AM

Greg,

Sounds like a job for VirtualDub, download the latest free soft and convert from 1440x1080 to a 720x576 sized avi before converting to mpeg, some like to add a sharpness filter of 8 as well, or frameserve from VirtualDub to something like Procoder .

There's masses of information of you search dvinfo on this issue.

Paul

Paul Kellett · April 22nd, 2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Hawkes

I took a DVD in to Sony at Basingstoke today and they have replied saying it is a problem with conversion from 1440 x 1080 and Vegas.
.

Absolutely not, no way, my dvd's look great.
As it happens, i shot some 1440x1080 last night, just a locked of shot of an interview , so what i'm gonna do is render it to mpeg-2 as if i was gonna burn it with architect, except i'm not gonna burn it, you are, i'l pm you to get you email address then i'll send you a short mpeg-2 via mailbig file, you can then download it and burn it, if it still looks crap then you render an mpeg-2, send it to me and i'll burn it.
I'll try and do it tonight.
It's not vegas and 1440x1080 to dvd.

Paul.

Reg Gothard · April 22nd, 2009, 02:20 PM

Not sure if this will solve your problem, but it solved mine. Unfortunately I (now) live in NTSC-land so you'll have to adjust your numbers accordingly.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/1031747-post14.html documents what I did.
The key steps were:
> Selected "HDV 1080 60i" PROJECT template and changed de-interlace method to "Blend"
> Selected the "NTSC DVD Architect Widescreen" RENDER template, and changed Field Order to "None (Progressive").
> Authored using standard 720x480 WS DVD settings in DVD Architect.
The same post explains briefly what was causing my problem.

The first post in that thread documents (in coma-inducing detail) what problems I was experiencing. Other posts were made by people PAL-people, so there may be some relief for you there.

As I say - your problem might not be the same as mine. But I'd rather offer the info and have it prove worthless than run the risk of sitting on your answer.
HTH

Greg Hawkes · April 28th, 2009, 06:47 AM

Hi Reg

Well done!

Your solution works fine.

I do not need to make a DVD to see that the problem with interlace clashing has been solved.

Normally I do not use 1440 x 1080 preferring HQ 1280 x 720 / 50 frames per sec
for PAL land.

Thanks again.

Greg

Paul Kellett · April 28th, 2009, 07:14 AM

Greg, try making a dvd, cos dvd-a will change the field order into interlaced, that's what dvd's are.
If you look at the properties there's no option to burn progressive, it just say's "no" and it's greyed out, so it's gonna burn interlaced anyway.
So the proof is in the pudding, or in this case the dvd.

Paul.

Greg Hawkes · April 29th, 2009, 02:38 AM

Hi Paul

By modifying the render to mainconcept2 template to field order none (progressive)
and then viewing the mpeg2 file in a suitable player (windows media player or DVDA player etc) you can see the problem is solved.

Then making the DVD with default burner settings the DVD is fine.

April 22nd, 2009, 08:01 AM	#1
Greg Hawkes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 83	Very poor 25mb/sec EX1 > DVD Help. I normally film and edit from 35mb/sec clips 720P/50 the resultant PAL DVD is very good. A colleague of mine asked me to use my cameras to film a dance show last weekend but because he expected to edit the clilps on his system (Storm/Premiere 6.5) he was hoping to feed the av out from the camera and capture the stream and edit as normal. Please bear with me I am getting there. As many of you may know the SD from the av socket is not good enough to edit. (motion artifacts) so I will now be using my Sony Vegas system to edit directly from the mxf files from the cards. Before he arrives (Tomorrow Thus) to do the edit. I have been editing the rehearsal clipas, same settings as above and the DVD I have produced is very poor showing the motion artifacts that can be seen when viewing the AV out pictures. On the timeline preview (good quality but not full size there is no evidence of this problem. I believe the difficulties I am having is due to the mpeg conversion from the 1440 x 1080 pictures. Any ideas anybody? Sony silver support team are looking at the DVD I have made today but I fear they may be slow to respond.

April 22nd, 2009, 08:31 AM	#2
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Greg it's not the fact that you're shooting in sp mode and using vegas because i also use vegas and used to shoot in sp mode, (before cheap cards came along i had to get the most from my 4 sxs cards), and my dvd's used to look fine. What motion artifacts are you seeing ? Do you have to look hard to see them or are they easy to spot, i mean can joe public see the artifacts or are you being picky because you look for these things, as most of us do ? Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

April 22nd, 2009, 11:03 AM	#3
Greg Hawkes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 83	Artifacts Hi Paul thanks for the reply. The artifacts are extremely obvious and totally unaceptable. I took a DVD in to Sony at Basingstoke today and they have replied saying it is a problem with conversion from 1440 x 1080 and Vegas. I tried even printing a short sequence to DVCAM tape same problem.

April 22nd, 2009, 11:47 AM	#4
Paul Newman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Agua Blanca Ibiza Posts: 305	Greg, Sounds like a job for VirtualDub, download the latest free soft and convert from 1440x1080 to a 720x576 sized avi before converting to mpeg, some like to add a sharpness filter of 8 as well, or frameserve from VirtualDub to something like Procoder . There's masses of information of you search dvinfo on this issue. Paul __________________ Another Sunny Day in Ibiza

April 28th, 2009, 07:14 AM	#8
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Greg, try making a dvd, cos dvd-a will change the field order into interlaced, that's what dvd's are. If you look at the properties there's no option to burn progressive, it just say's "no" and it's greyed out, so it's gonna burn interlaced anyway. So the proof is in the pudding, or in this case the dvd. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

April 22nd, 2009, 02:20 PM	#6
Reg Gothard Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Okotoks, Alberta, Canada Posts: 50	Not sure if this will solve your problem, but it solved mine. Unfortunately I (now) live in NTSC-land so you'll have to adjust your numbers accordingly. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/1031747-post14.html documents what I did. The key steps were: > Selected "HDV 1080 60i" PROJECT template and changed de-interlace method to "Blend" > Selected the "NTSC DVD Architect Widescreen" RENDER template, and changed Field Order to "None (Progressive"). > Authored using standard 720x480 WS DVD settings in DVD Architect. The same post explains briefly what was causing my problem. The first post in that thread documents (in coma-inducing detail) what problems I was experiencing. Other posts were made by people PAL-people, so there may be some relief for you there. As I say - your problem might not be the same as mine. But I'd rather offer the info and have it prove worthless than run the risk of sitting on your answer. HTH

April 28th, 2009, 06:47 AM	#7
Greg Hawkes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 83	Hi Reg Well done! Your solution works fine. I do not need to make a DVD to see that the problem with interlace clashing has been solved. Normally I do not use 1440 x 1080 preferring HQ 1280 x 720 / 50 frames per sec for PAL land. Thanks again. Greg

April 29th, 2009, 02:38 AM	#9
Greg Hawkes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 83	Hi Paul By modifying the render to mainconcept2 template to field order none (progressive) and then viewing the mpeg2 file in a suitable player (windows media player or DVDA player etc) you can see the problem is solved. Then making the DVD with default burner settings the DVD is fine.