Shoot and simultaneously capture long conference? at DVinfo.net

Michael Power · April 22nd, 2009, 01:29 AM

I have a client interested in shoot some four hour seminars. He insists the recordings are merely for review purposes and that there'll be no editing.

I propose that I hook a DVD recorder up to the composite out of the EX1 and record to a dual layer DVD while simultaneously capturing on my MacBook Pro.

Will this work? Is there a good low data alternative codec to capture to in FCP or Toast (just in case the unthinkable happens and they want to edit or upload the footage).

Thanks

Paul Kellett · April 22nd, 2009, 05:26 AM

Why not just shoot to the cards as usual, swapping them as you shoot, when the shoot is done just transfer the clip(s) to a portable hard drive and let the client view from that.
If you've got a laptop the take that to the shoot and get the client to bring his own small hard drive, they're cheap enough to buy if he hasn't got one.
Also before the shoot download a copy of the clipbrowser install program, give that to your client on the portable drive, that way they can then take the hard drive away with everything they need and just install clip browser on their own pc.
This is what i do on a some jobs, the clients see's the footage on their drive on my pc on location, if everythings ok with them then there's no reason not to be paid straight away then.

Paul.

Craig Seeman · April 22nd, 2009, 07:21 AM

I use 2 32GB SDHC cards so I can do close to 4 hours without a card change.
I make the client DVD-DL copies with ClipBrowser.

With CalibratedSoftware's new MP4 import plugin i can also use the MP4s in Episode or Compressor on the Mac and make window clips for them to view fairly quickly.

William Griffin · April 22nd, 2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

I use 2 32GB SDHC cards so I can do close to 4 hours without a card change.
I make the client DVD-DL copies with ClipBrowser.

With CalibratedSoftware's new MP4 import plugin i can also use the MP4s in Episode or Compressor on the Mac and make window clips for them to view fairly quickly.

Being in the same place as to make a DVD copy for the client....stupid question of the day:

How do you do it? Please tell me a step by step way of doing this as I have Clipbrowser 2.5 on the laptop....thanks

Perrone Ford · April 22nd, 2009, 10:49 AM

I use my Firestore for this. HDV recording, but I can do 4+ hours of it. And if desired, I can run 2 32MB SDHC cards also so that I get a live backup in case something goes wacky.

Lot's of options to get this done if you have an external recording device.

Craig Seeman · April 22nd, 2009, 11:18 AM

In my case I'm not talking about "live" dual system so it may not be appropriate if the client needs to walk immediately.

I simply burn the BPAV to a DVD-DL.
Alternately, with the MP4 plugin, I can make the client a Window Dub from the BPAV without having to go through the NLE/Time Code Reader Filter "rigamarole."

You can bring laptop with DVD burner to shoot if the client is willing to wait after the shoot.

BTW on JVC HM camera one can buy the SxS adaptor and do a dual record to SxS and SDHC. Then you just hand the client the SDHC cards after the shoot and the SxS are your copy. That would mean some 16GB card swaps or you could use 32GB cards and possibly avoid the swaps for a nearly 4 hour shoot.

Keith Moreau · April 23rd, 2009, 04:55 PM

If you're on a Mac you could use BlackMagic Designs video recorder. Blackmagic Design: Video Recorder

It has a component input and does real time H.264 encoding of various sizes. Doubles as a 2nd monitor (with a small delay).

You could then provide very efficient MP4 files all on a DVD or make them into a DVD depending on the client. Making DVD real time on the computer may not be possible though, encoding to DVD format from any format takes some time.

There are also several inexpensive DVD recorders that take a s-video or composite input and burn a DVD. That would probably be your best bet for ease and efficiency.

For example: Sony | For Business | VRD-MC5.

Michael Power · May 27th, 2009, 07:29 PM

For the records, the coordinator mistakenly told us the sessions were four hrs long. They were actually six. He also expressed a clear wish to have each six day's material on a single DVD. Dicey stuff. Outputted from EX3 to two looped DVD set top recorders (a Panasonic and a Sony) with one as a back up and my recommendation is NEVER do anything less because one will always go wrong. Another tip: my camera operator sneaked into the closed sessions and secretly rolled on the EX, a blessing when a couple of times the DVDs didn't start or stop quite when they should have.

The picture off the DVDs didn't look particularly sharp, as anticipated, and one reason I discovered later is that - does anyone know this? - when you set a DVD recorder to ultra long play it halves the SD picture size. More fun ensued with clients asking us then at end of each day to put chapter markers and descriptions of scenes. Did this by ripping out m2v and aac files in MPEG Streamclip and re-authoring in DVD Studio Pro.

It all worked out fine considering the pic quality was not of prime importance as long as the client in playing back the DVDs could identify speakers, hear them and know what stage of the six hour talks they were at.

Craig Seeman · May 27th, 2009, 08:46 PM

Why, given the advice in this thread, did you do the job like that? Did they really insist (and pay extra) for this workflow?

32GB SDHC cards hold 116 minutes in HQ mode and close to 140 minutes in SP (HDV) mode.

Unless you're charging a premium for a rush job where the client insists on leaving with DVDs why would you offer that? Consumer DVD recorders can have problems finalizing discs. It should be obvious that as you try to cram more data on a finite disc it's going to lower the data rate and therefore the quality. All this and you had to re-author anyway (obviously the client didn't need to leave with the discs). You may well have had to re-encode the discs to do that further reducing the quality.

All you had to do was shoot on 32GB cards. 3 cards would be enough for each 6 hour day.
Dump them to Final Cut Pro. Add Chapter markers. Dump into DVD Studio Pro using a template and lower the data rate so that 6 hours fit on a DVD (yuck).

You might have asked if the client would be OK with files they can play on a computer. Then you could have done H.264 mov encode with chapter markers and you would have gotten a more efficient file size than MPEG2 used on DVD Video.

I hope you charged them significantly for all this hassle if these was really the workflow they wanted. Don't assume clients understand the implications and complications of what they think is a "simple" request.

April 22nd, 2009, 01:29 AM	#1
Michael Power Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 47	Shoot and simultaneously capture long conference? I have a client interested in shoot some four hour seminars. He insists the recordings are merely for review purposes and that there'll be no editing. I propose that I hook a DVD recorder up to the composite out of the EX1 and record to a dual layer DVD while simultaneously capturing on my MacBook Pro. Will this work? Is there a good low data alternative codec to capture to in FCP or Toast (just in case the unthinkable happens and they want to edit or upload the footage). Thanks

April 22nd, 2009, 05:26 AM	#2
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Why not just shoot to the cards as usual, swapping them as you shoot, when the shoot is done just transfer the clip(s) to a portable hard drive and let the client view from that. If you've got a laptop the take that to the shoot and get the client to bring his own small hard drive, they're cheap enough to buy if he hasn't got one. Also before the shoot download a copy of the clipbrowser install program, give that to your client on the portable drive, that way they can then take the hard drive away with everything they need and just install clip browser on their own pc. This is what i do on a some jobs, the clients see's the footage on their drive on my pc on location, if everythings ok with them then there's no reason not to be paid straight away then. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

April 22nd, 2009, 10:49 AM	#5
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	I use my Firestore for this. HDV recording, but I can do 4+ hours of it. And if desired, I can run 2 32MB SDHC cards also so that I get a live backup in case something goes wacky. Lot's of options to get this done if you have an external recording device. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

April 22nd, 2009, 07:21 AM	#3
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	I use 2 32GB SDHC cards so I can do close to 4 hours without a card change. I make the client DVD-DL copies with ClipBrowser. With CalibratedSoftware's new MP4 import plugin i can also use the MP4s in Episode or Compressor on the Mac and make window clips for them to view fairly quickly.

April 22nd, 2009, 11:18 AM	#6
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	In my case I'm not talking about "live" dual system so it may not be appropriate if the client needs to walk immediately. I simply burn the BPAV to a DVD-DL. Alternately, with the MP4 plugin, I can make the client a Window Dub from the BPAV without having to go through the NLE/Time Code Reader Filter "rigamarole." You can bring laptop with DVD burner to shoot if the client is willing to wait after the shoot. BTW on JVC HM camera one can buy the SxS adaptor and do a dual record to SxS and SDHC. Then you just hand the client the SDHC cards after the shoot and the SxS are your copy. That would mean some 16GB card swaps or you could use 32GB cards and possibly avoid the swaps for a nearly 4 hour shoot.

April 23rd, 2009, 04:55 PM	#7
Keith Moreau Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brisbane, California Posts: 530	If you're on a Mac you could use BlackMagic Designs video recorder. Blackmagic Design: Video Recorder It has a component input and does real time H.264 encoding of various sizes. Doubles as a 2nd monitor (with a small delay). You could then provide very efficient MP4 files all on a DVD or make them into a DVD depending on the client. Making DVD real time on the computer may not be possible though, encoding to DVD format from any format takes some time. There are also several inexpensive DVD recorders that take a s-video or composite input and burn a DVD. That would probably be your best bet for ease and efficiency. For example: Sony \| For Business \| VRD-MC5.

May 27th, 2009, 07:29 PM	#8
Michael Power Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 47	For the records, the coordinator mistakenly told us the sessions were four hrs long. They were actually six. He also expressed a clear wish to have each six day's material on a single DVD. Dicey stuff. Outputted from EX3 to two looped DVD set top recorders (a Panasonic and a Sony) with one as a back up and my recommendation is NEVER do anything less because one will always go wrong. Another tip: my camera operator sneaked into the closed sessions and secretly rolled on the EX, a blessing when a couple of times the DVDs didn't start or stop quite when they should have. The picture off the DVDs didn't look particularly sharp, as anticipated, and one reason I discovered later is that - does anyone know this? - when you set a DVD recorder to ultra long play it halves the SD picture size. More fun ensued with clients asking us then at end of each day to put chapter markers and descriptions of scenes. Did this by ripping out m2v and aac files in MPEG Streamclip and re-authoring in DVD Studio Pro. It all worked out fine considering the pic quality was not of prime importance as long as the client in playing back the DVDs could identify speakers, hear them and know what stage of the six hour talks they were at.

May 27th, 2009, 08:46 PM	#9
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Why, given the advice in this thread, did you do the job like that? Did they really insist (and pay extra) for this workflow? 32GB SDHC cards hold 116 minutes in HQ mode and close to 140 minutes in SP (HDV) mode. Unless you're charging a premium for a rush job where the client insists on leaving with DVDs why would you offer that? Consumer DVD recorders can have problems finalizing discs. It should be obvious that as you try to cram more data on a finite disc it's going to lower the data rate and therefore the quality. All this and you had to re-author anyway (obviously the client didn't need to leave with the discs). You may well have had to re-encode the discs to do that further reducing the quality. All you had to do was shoot on 32GB cards. 3 cards would be enough for each 6 hour day. Dump them to Final Cut Pro. Add Chapter markers. Dump into DVD Studio Pro using a template and lower the data rate so that 6 hours fit on a DVD (yuck). You might have asked if the client would be OK with files they can play on a computer. Then you could have done H.264 mov encode with chapter markers and you would have gotten a more efficient file size than MPEG2 used on DVD Video. I hope you charged them significantly for all this hassle if these was really the workflow they wanted. Don't assume clients understand the implications and complications of what they think is a "simple" request.