Clip Browser: is it necessary? at DVinfo.net

Michael B. McGee · April 16th, 2009, 07:59 PM

i've been using Clip Browser version 1 successfully for about a year now. i haven't had a need to upgrade to 2.5, but i did it anyways just to see the difference between the two. If you're only dumping/transferring footage from the SxS cards to a hard-drive, do you really need to use Sony Clip Browser? this leads me into my second question. on version 2.5 you have an option to use Data Protection and/or CRC. does anyone find these two functions to be necessary? i've read a few threads where people have had trouble transferring footage, but they weren't very specific. so, what are your thoughts?

thanks,
Mike

Craig Seeman · April 16th, 2009, 08:41 PM

Regarding CRC, Are seat belts necessary?

Once accident and it can be crippling or fatal. In the course of lifetime one accident can cause you to lose the shoot, the client, maybe even your entire business.

Michael B. McGee · April 16th, 2009, 09:20 PM

touche! but if in a pinch for time, can you get away without it? subjective question i know, but that's one reason why this website exists isn't it?

Leonard Levy · April 17th, 2009, 01:22 AM

Its very rare to have a problem with drag and drop. I don't know anyone who has experienced one. However I was finally convinced to switch to Clip Browser 2.5 and I don't see any reason not to use it. Its just as fast as drag and drop and frankly I loved the features it offered.

Trevor Meeks · April 17th, 2009, 01:43 AM

i've never had a problem with drag and drop. as long as your file system is structured properly there is very little chance of anything going wrong, but of course I always try to keep the cards intact until I can be 100% certain. Perhaps just something I learned from my photography business...

David Issko · April 17th, 2009, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael B. McGee

i've read a few threads where people have had trouble transferring footage, but they weren't very specific. so, what are your thoughts?

thanks,
Mike

I'v read a few threads where people are beside themselves due to not using CB (with CRC checked on). Why go to the expense of XDCAM EX system and not follow through with Sony's strongest recommendation to safely copy the BPAV folder & files to other storage meduims using CB?

For me, it is a no brainer to use CB with CRC checked on. I do it as soon as possible after my recording and to 2 Lacie Rugged drives as well as 2 additional internal drives. I do another job in the meantime. Once checked, I then erase the sxs cards.

No fuss, no bother, mimimise/eliminate risk to possible corrupt files using the drag & drop method.

John Peterson · April 17th, 2009, 05:23 AM

In terms of the newer versions of Clip Browser, don't forget the conversion tools that are built in. While I am still experimenting in terms of the overall conversion quality of Clip Browser vs alternate methods it seems reasonably good.

John

Ed Kukla · April 17th, 2009, 05:32 AM

If you are using the SDHC cards and keeping them as archive, like tape, is there any reason you have to use the CRC & error detection? If you have the one in a thousand error on transfer, you can go back to the card to retransfer the clip.

When copying card-to-card in the camera, does the camera do this CRC & error detection?

Piotr Wozniacki · April 17th, 2009, 05:49 AM

To me, it's obvious that any mission-critical (i.e. paying gig, especially of a live action type) does call for every safety measure possible. For this kind of projects, I'm using either CB or ShotPut (both with CRC enabled).

For less critical tasks (like test shooting for PP tweaking, comparisons, etc.), I always want the clips to be ready on my HDD as quick as possible. In such situation, I don't even bother with copying entire BPAV's; I use Clip Browser's "Export MXF for NLE" straight from the SxS cards.

I wonder - if the CRC is set to ON in the CB's preferences, is it also in action when exporting (as opposed to copying)? Personally I doubt it, as exporting entire 8GB SxS card to mxf files takes seconds (no kidding - less than a minute) on my Quad desktop with PCIe ExpressCard reader...

Edit: after a second thought, I'm positive CRC is NOT active when re-wrapping; after all it would be comparing apples to oranges :)

Peter Mee · April 17th, 2009, 09:13 AM

My advice is ALWAYS use safe mode/CRC unless you are happy to lose footage.

I posted here a while back about an incident I had. Copied files from SxS using ClipBrowser with no safety. Everything looked fine and footage imported iinto FCP OK and I could edit. It was only when I tried to export from FCP that application errors started showing up and it transpired that I simply could not convert the footage in any way. Luckily I had not deleted the cards and re-transfered using safety/CRC and all was OK.

What was frightening was that it was at the END of the process that the problems manifested. Imagine if this had been a large projects with weeks or months between shoot and delivery? By that stage, cards would have been wiped.

Peter

Markus Klatt · April 17th, 2009, 11:42 AM

Just a short question between: is the "data-proirity" and "CRC-check" from Tool-Options-menu active at any copying within clip-browser?

Especially:

- copying fresh shot clips from SDHC in USB-card reader to HDD?
- copying single clips from any drive / directory to another drive / directory?

Or is it just when using the "copy all" function when EX1 is connected via USB-cable to the pre-selected directory in Tool-Option-menu?

Last one is extreeeeeeeeeemly slow. One should invest in a real PC-Express-reader...

Rob Collins · April 17th, 2009, 11:45 AM

For non-critical projects I will often just use Log & Transfer from the card and then back up the QT files. Can these files "go bad"?

Barry J. Weckesser · April 17th, 2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Klatt

Just a short question between: is the "data-proirity" and "CRC-check" from Tool-Options-menu active at any copying within clip-browser?

Especially:

- copying fresh shot clips from SDHC in USB-card reader to HDD?
- copying single clips from any drive / directory to another drive / directory?

Or is it just when using the "copy all" function when EX1 is connected via USB-cable to the pre-selected directory in Tool-Option-menu?

Last one is extreeeeeeeeeemly slow. One should invest in a real PC-Express-reader...

That is the exact question I have. You do a transfer from the SDHC card or SxS card that is only partially filled and use the "transfer all clips" of course the CRC will work if you have it checked.

What happens if you come back later and use the same SDHC card and only copy those clips that are new using the highlight/copy command or drag and drop to another folder - does the CRC work in that instance or only with "Copy All"

Mitchell Lewis · April 17th, 2009, 03:23 PM

CRC works no matter if you're copying one or all your clips. Old or new, good or bad composition. hehehe

Craig Seeman · April 18th, 2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor Meeks

i've never had a problem with drag and drop. as long as your file system is structured properly there is very little chance of anything going wrong,

The average person might only get in to one car accident in a lifetime. Unfortunately lifetime ends at that moment.

If one reads this and other EX forums, the body count is certainly high enough.

April 16th, 2009, 07:59 PM	#1
Michael B. McGee Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 318	Clip Browser: is it necessary? i've been using Clip Browser version 1 successfully for about a year now. i haven't had a need to upgrade to 2.5, but i did it anyways just to see the difference between the two. If you're only dumping/transferring footage from the SxS cards to a hard-drive, do you really need to use Sony Clip Browser? this leads me into my second question. on version 2.5 you have an option to use Data Protection and/or CRC. does anyone find these two functions to be necessary? i've read a few threads where people have had trouble transferring footage, but they weren't very specific. so, what are your thoughts? thanks, Mike

April 17th, 2009, 05:49 AM	#9
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	To me, it's obvious that any mission-critical (i.e. paying gig, especially of a live action type) does call for every safety measure possible. For this kind of projects, I'm using either CB or ShotPut (both with CRC enabled). For less critical tasks (like test shooting for PP tweaking, comparisons, etc.), I always want the clips to be ready on my HDD as quick as possible. In such situation, I don't even bother with copying entire BPAV's; I use Clip Browser's "Export MXF for NLE" straight from the SxS cards. I wonder - if the CRC is set to ON in the CB's preferences, is it also in action when exporting (as opposed to copying)? Personally I doubt it, as exporting entire 8GB SxS card to mxf files takes seconds (no kidding - less than a minute) on my Quad desktop with PCIe ExpressCard reader... Edit: after a second thought, I'm positive CRC is NOT active when re-wrapping; after all it would be comparing apples to oranges :) __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

April 17th, 2009, 11:45 AM	#12
Rob Collins Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 229	What about FCP Log & Transfer? For non-critical projects I will often just use Log & Transfer from the card and then back up the QT files. Can these files "go bad"?

April 17th, 2009, 03:23 PM	#14
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	CRC works no matter if you're copying one or all your clips. Old or new, good or bad composition. hehehe __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

April 16th, 2009, 08:41 PM	#2
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Regarding CRC, Are seat belts necessary? Once accident and it can be crippling or fatal. In the course of lifetime one accident can cause you to lose the shoot, the client, maybe even your entire business.

April 16th, 2009, 09:20 PM	#3
Michael B. McGee Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 318	touche! but if in a pinch for time, can you get away without it? subjective question i know, but that's one reason why this website exists isn't it?

April 17th, 2009, 01:22 AM	#4
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Its very rare to have a problem with drag and drop. I don't know anyone who has experienced one. However I was finally convinced to switch to Clip Browser 2.5 and I don't see any reason not to use it. Its just as fast as drag and drop and frankly I loved the features it offered.

April 17th, 2009, 01:43 AM	#5
Trevor Meeks Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sonoma, CA Posts: 336	i've never had a problem with drag and drop. as long as your file system is structured properly there is very little chance of anything going wrong, but of course I always try to keep the cards intact until I can be 100% certain. Perhaps just something I learned from my photography business...

April 17th, 2009, 05:23 AM	#7
John Peterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Monroe, NY Posts: 703	In terms of the newer versions of Clip Browser, don't forget the conversion tools that are built in. While I am still experimenting in terms of the overall conversion quality of Clip Browser vs alternate methods it seems reasonably good. John

April 17th, 2009, 05:32 AM	#8
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	If you are using the SDHC cards and keeping them as archive, like tape, is there any reason you have to use the CRC & error detection? If you have the one in a thousand error on transfer, you can go back to the card to retransfer the clip. When copying card-to-card in the camera, does the camera do this CRC & error detection?

April 17th, 2009, 09:13 AM	#10
Peter Mee Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Carrickmacross, Ireland Posts: 26	My advice is ALWAYS use safe mode/CRC unless you are happy to lose footage. I posted here a while back about an incident I had. Copied files from SxS using ClipBrowser with no safety. Everything looked fine and footage imported iinto FCP OK and I could edit. It was only when I tried to export from FCP that application errors started showing up and it transpired that I simply could not convert the footage in any way. Luckily I had not deleted the cards and re-transfered using safety/CRC and all was OK. What was frightening was that it was at the END of the process that the problems manifested. Imagine if this had been a large projects with weeks or months between shoot and delivery? By that stage, cards would have been wiped. Peter

April 17th, 2009, 11:42 AM	#11
Markus Klatt Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 169	Just a short question between: is the "data-proirity" and "CRC-check" from Tool-Options-menu active at any copying within clip-browser? Especially: - copying fresh shot clips from SDHC in USB-card reader to HDD? - copying single clips from any drive / directory to another drive / directory? Or is it just when using the "copy all" function when EX1 is connected via USB-cable to the pre-selected directory in Tool-Option-menu? Last one is extreeeeeeeeeemly slow. One should invest in a real PC-Express-reader...