24psf? at DVinfo.net

Michael Richard · April 16th, 2009, 05:14 PM

In the Video Set Menu
There is an option for 24p system.
One choice is 60i and the other 24PsF

If one is shooting 1080p24 which setting should be used?

I notice 24PsF was added to the camera through the last firmware.

Barry J. Anwender · April 16th, 2009, 06:36 PM

Perhaps the least understood capability of the EX cameras and I dare say in the broadcast industry. Wikipedia is a good place to start with the basics which also covers the 50Hz systems in PAL countries.

Basically, the two options you have discovered allow you to either:
a) obtain 24p of video in a 24p timeline, without having to do a 2:3 pull-down
b) obtain 24p video embedded as two progressive frames within a 60i timeline

Cheers

Michael Richard · April 16th, 2009, 07:35 PM

So is one better than the other?

Michael B. McGee · April 16th, 2009, 08:03 PM

i would avoid any kind of a pull-down if possible. i'm a big fan of progressive. but then again i guess it depends on your project/deliverables.

Barry J. Anwender · April 16th, 2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Richard

So is one better than the other?

In High Definition, you will have to make that choice on the target deliverable.

If Blu-ray is the target then 24PsF is the way to go. If you intend on targeting it to a display that is not 24P capable then 24p within a 60i timeline is the way to go.

Clark Peters · April 17th, 2009, 11:52 AM

Why wouldn't I choose 24P if I want to output to Blu-Ray?

Pete

Andy Shipsides · April 17th, 2009, 11:59 AM

This option in the EX1 will only change the HD-SDI output of the camera form 60i to 23.98 PsF. (in the EX3 it also changes the TC and Genlock settings) It does not change the recording mode at all. XDCAM EX codecs are native codecs, meaning they contain no pull-down or duplicate frames. So your footage will be in 1080p 23.98p regardless of this setting.

PsF output does have it's advantages as Barry mentioned. If you were using an external recorder like a Flash XDR or HDCAM deck then you may want to use the 23.98 PsF mode. This would be good because it would basically keep the video in the same native progressive mode. If you recorded the 60i output of the camera you would be recording 23.98 pulldowned over 60i, which you would have to remove if you wanted to go back to that true 23.98.

Personally the only time I would record the 60i output is if I was intending to go directly to television broadcast or if I had a deck that didn't except a PsF signal. My reasoning being that it is very easy for devices to add pulldown when outputting or to do this in post. However it is fairly difficult to remove pulldown and get back to the original source.

Michael Richard · April 17th, 2009, 02:27 PM

thank you Andy, that clears this up in my mind now.

April 16th, 2009, 05:14 PM	#1
Michael Richard Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Midcoast, Maine Posts: 89	24psf? In the Video Set Menu There is an option for 24p system. One choice is 60i and the other 24PsF If one is shooting 1080p24 which setting should be used? I notice 24PsF was added to the camera through the last firmware.

April 16th, 2009, 06:36 PM	#2
Barry J. Anwender Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 382	Progressive Segmented Frame - PsF Perhaps the least understood capability of the EX cameras and I dare say in the broadcast industry. Wikipedia is a good place to start with the basics which also covers the 50Hz systems in PAL countries. Basically, the two options you have discovered allow you to either: a) obtain 24p of video in a 24p timeline, without having to do a 2:3 pull-down b) obtain 24p video embedded as two progressive frames within a 60i timeline Cheers

April 17th, 2009, 11:59 AM	#7
Andy Shipsides Sponsor: Abel CineTech Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New York, NY Posts: 361	This option in the EX1 will only change the HD-SDI output of the camera form 60i to 23.98 PsF. (in the EX3 it also changes the TC and Genlock settings) It does not change the recording mode at all. XDCAM EX codecs are native codecs, meaning they contain no pull-down or duplicate frames. So your footage will be in 1080p 23.98p regardless of this setting. PsF output does have it's advantages as Barry mentioned. If you were using an external recorder like a Flash XDR or HDCAM deck then you may want to use the 23.98 PsF mode. This would be good because it would basically keep the video in the same native progressive mode. If you recorded the 60i output of the camera you would be recording 23.98 pulldowned over 60i, which you would have to remove if you wanted to go back to that true 23.98. Personally the only time I would record the 60i output is if I was intending to go directly to television broadcast or if I had a deck that didn't except a PsF signal. My reasoning being that it is very easy for devices to add pulldown when outputting or to do this in post. However it is fairly difficult to remove pulldown and get back to the original source. __________________ Andy Shipsides -Camera Technology Specialist AbelCineTech, New York - Visit our Blog - http://blog.abelcine.com

April 16th, 2009, 07:35 PM	#3
Michael Richard Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Midcoast, Maine Posts: 89	So is one better than the other?

April 16th, 2009, 08:03 PM	#4
Michael B. McGee Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 318	i would avoid any kind of a pull-down if possible. i'm a big fan of progressive. but then again i guess it depends on your project/deliverables.

April 17th, 2009, 11:52 AM	#6
Clark Peters Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Manhattan, Kansas Posts: 123	Why wouldn't I choose 24P if I want to output to Blu-Ray? Pete

April 17th, 2009, 02:27 PM	#8
Michael Richard Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Midcoast, Maine Posts: 89	thank you Andy, that clears this up in my mind now.