EX3/EX1 sync

Steve Browne · May 5th, 2010, 01:42 AM

I haven't done this but page 134 of the ex3 manual has stuff on sync
How about if you run a cable from the ex1 composite out to the ex3 timecode in? Would that take the timecode. Certainly you can do that with Genlock

Hiram Yates · May 5th, 2010, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

We also record a clapper an all cameras

During editing, it's very easy to synchronize them with pin-point accuracy by the waveforms, using the clapper sound.

Never had a problem.

This is exactly how we do it on our 3 EX1 shoots. Using a camera flash is ok if you need to not disturb people with a clap, but whenever you can use sound it's way easier to use waveform. With a flash I've found that the footage can be off by a frame or two, especially if recording 24p... With sound there's no frame fishing required, just bring up the waveform find the spike, and add a marker on each clip then it's easy to 'snap' all the clips together...

Dave Morrison · May 7th, 2010, 10:52 AM

Hiram, are you talking about using the clapper with cameras that are all getting their audio from a common source? In other words., if your cameras were only using their built-in mics and one of your three cameras was MUCH farther away from the clapper, there would be a time delay, no? That's why I always thought that the electronic flash idea made sense.

Alister Chapman · May 7th, 2010, 11:27 AM

If you genlock the cameras then the timecode will not drift as the timecode is tied to the cameras video frames, so if both cameras are running in sync via genlock then the timecodes will run at exactly the same rate.

As has been said to Genlock the cameras take either the composite out or Y component out from the EX1 and connect that to the genlock in on the EX3. With a good quality BNC cable you should be able to go to around 25m (75ft). The cameras would need to remain connected together to stay in sync. If you disconnect them they will start to drift again.

While it is hard to get the cameras set to exactly the same timecode, at least if both are running in sync the difference between the timecodes will remain constant throughout the shoot.

Piotr Wozniacki · May 7th, 2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Morrison

Hiram, are you talking about using the clapper with cameras that are all getting their audio from a common source? In other words., if your cameras were only using their built-in mics and one of your three cameras was MUCH farther away from the clapper, there would be a time delay, no? That's why I always thought that the electronic flash idea made sense.

With distances typical for multi-camera stage recording (which I have experience with), the difference in the individual camera distances from the sound source(s) is negligible in this regard.

Richard Crowley · May 10th, 2010, 01:53 PM

Sounds like it might be post-production (editing) issue. I never sync cameras together, and even turning them on and off, it doesn't seem like any particular problem to put them into sync on the NLE timeline. Dunno what the issue is here?

Chris Clifton · May 11th, 2010, 06:52 PM

The software that works for syncing an HDSLR with external sound recorders also works with multicam.
Singular Software

It is amazing.

Oliver Neubert · May 13th, 2010, 04:37 PM

When I shoot performances, I always use a film slate (I prefer the one which lets some backlight through). I then synch the audio peaks.
A camera that is far away, say at the back of an auditorium, will give you a delay of 1 frame per 13.72 meters (shooting at 25 fps) due to sound travelling at 343 m/sec. In this case you need to zoom in to see a closeup of the film slate before clapping.
For post: line the picture up with the audiopeaks then set your inpoints for the multiclip.

I prefer a clapper, because I usually record the sound with an external stereomic which is fed to a HN4. That way I can record the sound in 4-ch 24bit/48kHz . 2 for the external mic and 2 from the desk if I am shooting a performance. An additional microphone on the stage that feeds into the desk, for the sole purpose of feeding the clap to the line that goes into the HN4 makes everything real easy to sync.

And... I think slates are cool in this digital age... it also allows me to have visible notes on the beginning of each take that says something a bit more reasonable than just a bunch of numbers in the filename...

Patrik Vale · October 18th, 2010, 02:16 AM

When we are doing a multicamera shot, we have a simple video running timecode on a laptop..
At the beginning we just point all the cameras to a laptop and then we can easily sync them in the timeline

Luben Izov · October 18th, 2010, 03:13 PM

You can sync anything to anything in various ways but that would be in sync only for a very short takes! As Alister has pointed in his post, only via Genlock or Clockbox would keep the cameras in sync. Although, present day "Hollywood" clock-boxes drift several fields to frames! Don't forget that the sound person on set needs to be experienced to keep all that in sync. Sound should always be recorded separately from picture! The guide track from camera is a very good idea for possible backup. That why when I edit on AVID, my projects are always "Film Projects", so that I could move fields in any directions I wish to accomplish absolute sync.
Cheers

May 7th, 2010, 10:52 AM	#18
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	Hiram, are you talking about using the clapper with cameras that are all getting their audio from a common source? In other words., if your cameras were only using their built-in mics and one of your three cameras was MUCH farther away from the clapper, there would be a time delay, no? That's why I always thought that the electronic flash idea made sense. __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

May 7th, 2010, 11:27 AM	#19
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	If you genlock the cameras then the timecode will not drift as the timecode is tied to the cameras video frames, so if both cameras are running in sync via genlock then the timecodes will run at exactly the same rate. As has been said to Genlock the cameras take either the composite out or Y component out from the EX1 and connect that to the genlock in on the EX3. With a good quality BNC cable you should be able to go to around 25m (75ft). The cameras would need to remain connected together to stay in sync. If you disconnect them they will start to drift again. While it is hard to get the cameras set to exactly the same timecode, at least if both are running in sync the difference between the timecodes will remain constant throughout the shoot. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

May 11th, 2010, 06:52 PM	#22
Chris Clifton Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 56	Pluraleyes The software that works for syncing an HDSLR with external sound recorders also works with multicam. Singular Software It is amazing.

October 18th, 2010, 03:13 PM	#25
Luben Izov Major Player Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: White Rock Posts: 254	clock-box/Genlock You can sync anything to anything in various ways but that would be in sync only for a very short takes! As Alister has pointed in his post, only via Genlock or Clockbox would keep the cameras in sync. Although, present day "Hollywood" clock-boxes drift several fields to frames! Don't forget that the sound person on set needs to be experienced to keep all that in sync. Sound should always be recorded separately from picture! The guide track from camera is a very good idea for possible backup. That why when I edit on AVID, my projects are always "Film Projects", so that I could move fields in any directions I wish to accomplish absolute sync. Cheers

May 5th, 2010, 01:42 AM	#16
Steve Browne New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sunshine Coast, Aus Posts: 20	I haven't done this but page 134 of the ex3 manual has stuff on sync How about if you run a cable from the ex1 composite out to the ex3 timecode in? Would that take the timecode. Certainly you can do that with Genlock

May 10th, 2010, 01:53 PM	#21
Richard Crowley Trustee Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,238	Sounds like it might be post-production (editing) issue. I never sync cameras together, and even turning them on and off, it doesn't seem like any particular problem to put them into sync on the NLE timeline. Dunno what the issue is here?

May 13th, 2010, 04:37 PM	#23
Oliver Neubert Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zurich, Switzerland Posts: 101	When I shoot performances, I always use a film slate (I prefer the one which lets some backlight through). I then synch the audio peaks. A camera that is far away, say at the back of an auditorium, will give you a delay of 1 frame per 13.72 meters (shooting at 25 fps) due to sound travelling at 343 m/sec. In this case you need to zoom in to see a closeup of the film slate before clapping. For post: line the picture up with the audiopeaks then set your inpoints for the multiclip. I prefer a clapper, because I usually record the sound with an external stereomic which is fed to a HN4. That way I can record the sound in 4-ch 24bit/48kHz . 2 for the external mic and 2 from the desk if I am shooting a performance. An additional microphone on the stage that feeds into the desk, for the sole purpose of feeding the clap to the line that goes into the HN4 makes everything real easy to sync. And... I think slates are cool in this digital age... it also allows me to have visible notes on the beginning of each take that says something a bit more reasonable than just a bunch of numbers in the filename...

October 18th, 2010, 02:16 AM	#24
Patrik Vale Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 50	When we are doing a multicamera shot, we have a simple video running timecode on a laptop.. At the beginning we just point all the cameras to a laptop and then we can easily sync them in the timeline