How to use PC field drives for Mac Edit System at DVinfo.net

Mike Chandler · March 20th, 2009, 09:30 AM

Is anyone reliably using a PC in the field for editing on a mac, and if so, how are you formatting the drives so they're readable and reliable in both systems?

I've been using my older Powerbook to copy sxs cards to a couple of G-tech raid mini 500gb drives, until learning that you must use ClipBrowser to copy the BPAV folders. Since CB only works with Intel macs, I need an alternative to my MBP and would like to not have to buy a brand new MBP, as I'm buying a new MacPro.

I've got a Lenovo netbook and was going to load the media from the cards in via usb and then out to the drives using an Express 34/FW800 adapter. But can the G-techs be formatted for both the PC and mac? I'll need to offload the field drives onto edit and archive drives via MBP or MP. I understand that macs will read FAT32, and that you can get around the 32gb limit, but that FAT's an unstable platform. And maybe the software Macdrive will work some of the time, but not every time.

Anyone doing this?

Mitchell Lewis · March 20th, 2009, 12:32 PM

A few months ago, Alex Lindsay talked about this on the MacBreak Weekly podcast. I remember him saying not to use FAT 32 as it was very unstable. He used a program for Windows that would allow a Windows computer to mount Mac hard drives. Do some Google searching and I bet you'll find it.

EDIT: Found the link for you: (what his team was using)
http://www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive/

Mike Chandler · March 20th, 2009, 02:50 PM

Thanks for the link, Mitchell. Installed MacDrive, and the PC saw the mac drives, but CB (2.0) won't copy the files. Get the error message: Failed to copy the clip. Reason: You don't have a right to access the file or writing is prohibited for the file.

Mitchell Lewis · March 20th, 2009, 03:00 PM

I'd email that error message to the MacDrive folks. I bet they'll have a solution for you. Make take a few days to hear back from them though. :)

Mike Chandler · March 20th, 2009, 05:49 PM

I was able to get it to copy one clip over by making a folder and saving to that instead of the root drive, but when I did "Copy All", got the same error message. I'll see what macdrive folks have to say.

Mitchell Lewis · March 20th, 2009, 05:54 PM

I'm guessing it's a Window's permissions issue which you should be able to fix easily with MacDrive's guidance.

Mike Chandler · March 23rd, 2009, 05:31 PM

MacDrive was very good about responding, but this was the answer:

Trying to use Mac files on a Mac drive in a Windows application is not always going to work. The more complex the application or the task, the more likely this is the case. As much as we would like MacDrive to be the solution in every scenario, we simply aren't able to test its compatibility with every software. You may wish to contact the developer of that application to report a problem using media with foreign file systems."

Given the number of things that can go wrong in the transfer process, I think it's probably asking for trouble to combine the two systems. Too bad.

Mitchell Lewis · March 23rd, 2009, 05:35 PM

That's too bad. As I mentioned earlier I had heard good things about using it. Maybe they got away with it because they only used it to transfer files. Dunno.... Sorry.

Jason Bodnar · March 23rd, 2009, 06:20 PM

Mike, do not use clip browser, just copy the entire BPAV folder and paste it to your external drive then hook that drive up to your Mac and use clip browser from that point on.
Maybe I do not have any issues because I am using the Lacie external drives FW800/400 and USB 2.0 they come formatted for the Mac and the PC with macdrive handles them great and I can copy BPAV folders both directions with no problems... I use Vegas on a PC and FCP on my Mac but also run Vista with Vegas on both my Macs by way of bootcamp along with CB 2.0 for both PC and Mac. I can say I have zero problems... All my Media drives are the Lacie rugged drives I think they are great! Although the G-raid stuff is great as well I have never tried the same process with one. I always just copy the entire BPAV folder off my cards to what ever drive I intend to use. I only use clip browser after that for conversion to MXF or other formats... Been doing this for the last year with no issues.

Ed Kukla · March 23rd, 2009, 07:35 PM

sheeesh this gets confusing

If I shoot with an EX-3 in the field and the client brings their own hard drive for post AND I have a PC; will I have issues using my PC to load clips to this client external drive?

Don Greening · March 23rd, 2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kukla

If I shoot with an EX-3 in the field and the client brings their own hard drive for post AND I have a PC; will I have issues using my PC to load clips to this client external drive?

You'll have issues if your client's hard drive is formatted in Mac OS Extended and you're trying to hook it up to your Windows laptop in the field. The two are not compatible. Asking your client to bring a FAT32 formatted drive is not a recommended way to transfer files either. There's a 4 Gbyte file size limit with FAT32 and even though this is the exact same formatting used by the SxS Pro memory cards it doesn't work out too well to let any operating system split your video clips into chunks. Chances are very good that a program like Clip Browser will not be successful in recombining the files (personal experience during a test).

So what to do? Buy MacDrive® for your PC to allow it to write to a Mac formatted drive? According to a previous post in this thread it didn't work out too well. My recommendation is that if you're using a PC laptop in the field to offload EX clips then keep any external hard drive you use also formatted in NTFS for maximum reliability. If a client wants to bring you a Mac formatted drive then reformat it in NTFS and tell the client why you're doing it: so you don't run into problems with your WIndows machine while you're transferring EX files with Sony's Clip Browser Software.

Tell your Mac client that they can spend 40 bucks and get a program called: "NTFS for Mac® OS X 7.0" that they install on their Mac and it will read and write to any NTFS formatted hard drive. Works really well. They get home with their EX clips on an NTFS hard drive, plug it into their machine and drag the clips (or an entire BPAV folder) over to any Mac formatted drive and you're done.

No more barriers between Windows and Mac®

- Don

Mike Chandler · March 24th, 2009, 12:27 PM

Jason: I'd been doing that with no problems, but then read the Sony CB downloadable manual which says in BOLD & RED: "To archive media from an SxS card to hard disc or other media, the Sony XDCAM EX ClipBrowser application must be used. Copying individual clips via the Macintosh Finder will result in unusable media on the target drive."

And since then, others have reported some problems with not using CB. I'd love to have this as an option, but don't think it's wise any more.

Jason Bodnar · March 24th, 2009, 08:12 PM

Mike, I guess that shows you I never read directions until after the fact... :) I do not copy individual clips I copy the entire BPAV folder... if you copy clips yes you will have major problems.. My SxS card shows up on my desktop, I double click on it and the BPAV folder is right there, select it and copy and paste it to my drive of choice. In over a year never had an issue doing it this way..but again I use a Mac formatted Lacie drive and when using Windows use Macdrive.

Mike Chandler · March 25th, 2009, 07:20 AM

That's a good point, Jason. When I'd done it successfully I simply copied the whole BPAV folder, too. And the warning only mentions "individual clips." Would love to get a definitive answer on this from a technical standpoint. Maybe there really is no need to use CB if you're grabbing the whole thing.

Jason Bodnar · March 25th, 2009, 11:52 AM

Mike, from my understanding the BPAV folder contains the file structure for all clips in the folder including all metadata and XML info ect. If you try and only copy individual clips it will lose the reference info which then can make things very unstable, especially if trying to copy cross platform. In my experience as long as you copy the entire BPAV you are fine and do not have to use CB. I only use CB for browsing clips for preview and doing conversions to MXF or another wrapper.

March 20th, 2009, 09:30 AM	#1
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	How to use PC field drives for Mac Edit System Is anyone reliably using a PC in the field for editing on a mac, and if so, how are you formatting the drives so they're readable and reliable in both systems? I've been using my older Powerbook to copy sxs cards to a couple of G-tech raid mini 500gb drives, until learning that you must use ClipBrowser to copy the BPAV folders. Since CB only works with Intel macs, I need an alternative to my MBP and would like to not have to buy a brand new MBP, as I'm buying a new MacPro. I've got a Lenovo netbook and was going to load the media from the cards in via usb and then out to the drives using an Express 34/FW800 adapter. But can the G-techs be formatted for both the PC and mac? I'll need to offload the field drives onto edit and archive drives via MBP or MP. I understand that macs will read FAT32, and that you can get around the 32gb limit, but that FAT's an unstable platform. And maybe the software Macdrive will work some of the time, but not every time. Anyone doing this? Last edited by Mike Chandler; March 20th, 2009 at 10:59 AM.

March 20th, 2009, 12:32 PM	#2
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	A few months ago, Alex Lindsay talked about this on the MacBreak Weekly podcast. I remember him saying not to use FAT 32 as it was very unstable. He used a program for Windows that would allow a Windows computer to mount Mac hard drives. Do some Google searching and I bet you'll find it. EDIT: Found the link for you: (what his team was using) http://www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive/ __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 20th, 2009, 02:50 PM	#3
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	Thanks for the link, Mitchell. Installed MacDrive, and the PC saw the mac drives, but CB (2.0) won't copy the files. Get the error message: Failed to copy the clip. Reason: You don't have a right to access the file or writing is prohibited for the file. __________________ www.packcreekproductions.com EX3, Mac Pro, FCP

March 20th, 2009, 03:00 PM	#4
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	I'd email that error message to the MacDrive folks. I bet they'll have a solution for you. Make take a few days to hear back from them though. :) __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 20th, 2009, 05:49 PM	#5
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	I was able to get it to copy one clip over by making a folder and saving to that instead of the root drive, but when I did "Copy All", got the same error message. I'll see what macdrive folks have to say. __________________ www.packcreekproductions.com EX3, Mac Pro, FCP

March 20th, 2009, 05:54 PM	#6
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	I'm guessing it's a Window's permissions issue which you should be able to fix easily with MacDrive's guidance. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 23rd, 2009, 05:31 PM	#7
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	MacDrive was very good about responding, but this was the answer: Trying to use Mac files on a Mac drive in a Windows application is not always going to work. The more complex the application or the task, the more likely this is the case. As much as we would like MacDrive to be the solution in every scenario, we simply aren't able to test its compatibility with every software. You may wish to contact the developer of that application to report a problem using media with foreign file systems." Given the number of things that can go wrong in the transfer process, I think it's probably asking for trouble to combine the two systems. Too bad. __________________ www.packcreekproductions.com EX3, Mac Pro, FCP

March 23rd, 2009, 05:35 PM	#8
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	That's too bad. As I mentioned earlier I had heard good things about using it. Maybe they got away with it because they only used it to transfer files. Dunno.... Sorry. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 23rd, 2009, 06:20 PM	#9
Jason Bodnar Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 376	Mike, do not use clip browser, just copy the entire BPAV folder and paste it to your external drive then hook that drive up to your Mac and use clip browser from that point on. Maybe I do not have any issues because I am using the Lacie external drives FW800/400 and USB 2.0 they come formatted for the Mac and the PC with macdrive handles them great and I can copy BPAV folders both directions with no problems... I use Vegas on a PC and FCP on my Mac but also run Vista with Vegas on both my Macs by way of bootcamp along with CB 2.0 for both PC and Mac. I can say I have zero problems... All my Media drives are the Lacie rugged drives I think they are great! Although the G-raid stuff is great as well I have never tried the same process with one. I always just copy the entire BPAV folder off my cards to what ever drive I intend to use. I only use clip browser after that for conversion to MXF or other formats... Been doing this for the last year with no issues.

March 23rd, 2009, 07:35 PM	#10
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	sheeesh this gets confusing If I shoot with an EX-3 in the field and the client brings their own hard drive for post AND I have a PC; will I have issues using my PC to load clips to this client external drive?

March 24th, 2009, 12:27 PM	#12
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	Jason: I'd been doing that with no problems, but then read the Sony CB downloadable manual which says in BOLD & RED: "To archive media from an SxS card to hard disc or other media, the Sony XDCAM EX ClipBrowser application must be used. Copying individual clips via the Macintosh Finder will result in unusable media on the target drive." And since then, others have reported some problems with not using CB. I'd love to have this as an option, but don't think it's wise any more. __________________ www.packcreekproductions.com EX3, Mac Pro, FCP

March 24th, 2009, 08:12 PM	#13
Jason Bodnar Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 376	Mike, I guess that shows you I never read directions until after the fact... :) I do not copy individual clips I copy the entire BPAV folder... if you copy clips yes you will have major problems.. My SxS card shows up on my desktop, I double click on it and the BPAV folder is right there, select it and copy and paste it to my drive of choice. In over a year never had an issue doing it this way..but again I use a Mac formatted Lacie drive and when using Windows use Macdrive.

March 25th, 2009, 07:20 AM	#14
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	That's a good point, Jason. When I'd done it successfully I simply copied the whole BPAV folder, too. And the warning only mentions "individual clips." Would love to get a definitive answer on this from a technical standpoint. Maybe there really is no need to use CB if you're grabbing the whole thing. __________________ www.packcreekproductions.com EX3, Mac Pro, FCP

March 25th, 2009, 11:52 AM	#15
Jason Bodnar Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 376	Mike, from my understanding the BPAV folder contains the file structure for all clips in the folder including all metadata and XML info ect. If you try and only copy individual clips it will lose the reference info which then can make things very unstable, especially if trying to copy cross platform. In my experience as long as you copy the entire BPAV you are fine and do not have to use CB. I only use CB for browsing clips for preview and doing conversions to MXF or another wrapper.