Fast conversion to Digibetacam. at DVinfo.net

Bob Grant · March 10th, 2009, 05:49 AM

Looks like I have a job where the network will want Digibetacam and fast. I'm thinking quickest would be to play the clips out over SDI set to downconvert and record into DB VCR at the end of the day.
Anyone tried this, if so how could is the in camera downconversion?
Can I playout all clips and not get TC breaks on the tape?
Any other / faster suggestions assuming the network will not accept XDCAM files burnt to DVDs.
I'd test this myself however my camera is away for a couple of days.

Denis OKeefe · March 10th, 2009, 08:44 AM

If you can send an SDI stream edgecropped or squeezed to the digibeta it should work fine, I've sent the SDI on satellite feeds and everyone was very happy with the picture. In a pinch and with a truck that didn't have SDI I tried the monitor out - it was awful, I went back to my Betacam 600.
The quality coming out of the camera monitor in SD is okay at best, usually it looks like the backfocus is out of whack - even when the HD side of things is tack sharp. MONITOR out according to Sony is just for monitoring

THe simplest solution may be to rent a digibeta for the shoot until clients realize the simplicity and benefits of tapeless production.
THe EX cameras are great, but sometimes they're ahead of the network curve.

Brian Luce · March 10th, 2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis OKeefe

If you can send an SDI stream edgecropped or squeezed to the digibeta it should work fine, I've sent the SDI on satellite feeds and everyone was very happy with the picture. In a pinch and with a truck that didn't have SDI I tried the monitor out - it was awful, I went back to my Betacam 600.
The quality coming out of the camera monitor in SD is okay at best, usually it looks like the backfocus is out of whack - even when the HD side of things is tack sharp. MONITOR out according to Sony is just for monitoring

THe simplest solution may be to rent a digibeta for the shoot until clients realize the simplicity and benefits of tapeless production.
THe EX cameras are great, but sometimes they're ahead of the network curve.

I'm interested in this. Why can't you use component out if the SDi isn't available?

Daniel Ridicki · March 11th, 2009, 01:25 AM

Have you thought of the Matrox MXO2 device? It should give you real time, print to tape option to DigiBeta. Never tried it myself, but soon will have to, as I have just started a project on XDCAM EX with delivery both in HD and SD on DigiBeta tape. So far, it seems like the way to go.
Here is the link describing it.

A Digibeta Quality Edit Suite in a bag - Could it be done using the MXO2? : Apple Final Cut Pro

Daniel

Bob Grant · March 11th, 2009, 02:50 AM

Reason I don't want to rent or buy anything is this is a charity job. I did speak to the network and they'd prefer Digibetacam although they also take DV. Somehow I can't stomach shooting XDCAM and delivering DV even though I'll have to pay for the tape out of my own pocket. The good news is I have 36 hours after the shoot to deliver the footage and they only need enough coverage for a 30 second spot.
Regarding getting anything other than SDI out of the EX1 I'd sure suggest an external converter, the location and weakness of the component and composite connectors would be quite a distraction. I have run firewire out to a HDV deck to record a concert (pre MxR) but I was sweating it the whole show watching that 4 pin connector and I had a confidence monitor on the output of the VCR.

I think AJA do a quite small box that'll do SDI and component to composite.

Mitchell Lewis · March 11th, 2009, 10:11 AM

I don't think he wants to record LIVE to Digibeta, just wants to transfer everything over at the end of the day.......right?

I'm too lazy to get out my EX3 manual, but double check that you can down convert the HD-SDI output to standard def SDI. I know the camera will do this with the component and composite outputs, but I'm not sure about the SDI. (crossing my fingers for you)

If you're able to connect it and have the camera do the down convert, then that would be the best way to go. Don't go to DV. I did a test the other day using FCP, our AJA Io HD and a JVC 24-inch Pro monitor. I compared the difference in quality between Beta SP tape captured in DV, ProRes, ProRes HQ and 8-bit uncompressed. The last three looked very similar in quality, but the DV capture looked aweful in comparison. After working 100% with DV for the last 7 years, I was very surprised to see just how poor the quality was. It was an eye opener.

Bob Grant · March 11th, 2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchell Lewis

I don't think he wants to record LIVE to Digibeta, just wants to transfer everything over at the end of the day.......right?

You are correct.

I could record live to Digibetacam but that means carrying around our DVW 250 Digibetacam portable. If I had a crew that would be the ideal as I could hand the tape over at the end of the shoot but it's just me, no crew.

G.A. Kokes · March 11th, 2009, 11:46 PM

On the same topic...

We have an EX shoot that will ultimately be transferred to digiBeta tape by a professional lab. Is it best to shoot 1080 60i? Will that give them the easiest conversion path? Anyone with experience please chime.

Thanks,
G

Bob Grant · March 12th, 2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.A. Kokes

On the same topic...

We have an EX shoot that will ultimately be transferred to digiBeta tape by a professional lab. Is it best to shoot 1080 60i? Will that give them the easiest conversion path? Anyone with experience please chime.

Thanks,
G

General advice is if need to deliver 60i then shoot 60i. 30p will give you less temporal resolution but more spatial resolution. The latter can lead to problems with aliasing and line twitter.

Michael Power · March 16th, 2009, 02:36 AM

I've shot a lot of work on HDV etc and outputted it to digibeta for broadcast with good results. My recommendation is either do your edit, finish as uncompressed or prores and take hard drive to suite (something/one like Simon and Tim at Voodoo at Fox Studios for mastering to Digibeta) or just take camera there and digitise on their FCP timeline and output to DB. They and their rates are reasonable.

March 10th, 2009, 05:49 AM	#1
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Fast conversion to Digibetacam. Looks like I have a job where the network will want Digibetacam and fast. I'm thinking quickest would be to play the clips out over SDI set to downconvert and record into DB VCR at the end of the day. Anyone tried this, if so how could is the in camera downconversion? Can I playout all clips and not get TC breaks on the tape? Any other / faster suggestions assuming the network will not accept XDCAM files burnt to DVDs. I'd test this myself however my camera is away for a couple of days.

March 10th, 2009, 08:44 AM	#2
Denis OKeefe Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wayne, PA Posts: 207	downconverter is for monitoring If you can send an SDI stream edgecropped or squeezed to the digibeta it should work fine, I've sent the SDI on satellite feeds and everyone was very happy with the picture. In a pinch and with a truck that didn't have SDI I tried the monitor out - it was awful, I went back to my Betacam 600. The quality coming out of the camera monitor in SD is okay at best, usually it looks like the backfocus is out of whack - even when the HD side of things is tack sharp. MONITOR out according to Sony is just for monitoring THe simplest solution may be to rent a digibeta for the shoot until clients realize the simplicity and benefits of tapeless production. THe EX cameras are great, but sometimes they're ahead of the network curve. Last edited by Denis OKeefe; March 10th, 2009 at 08:49 AM. Reason: syntax

March 11th, 2009, 01:25 AM	#4
Daniel Ridicki Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 124	Mxo2 ? Have you thought of the Matrox MXO2 device? It should give you real time, print to tape option to DigiBeta. Never tried it myself, but soon will have to, as I have just started a project on XDCAM EX with delivery both in HD and SD on DigiBeta tape. So far, it seems like the way to go. Here is the link describing it. A Digibeta Quality Edit Suite in a bag - Could it be done using the MXO2? : Apple Final Cut Pro Daniel

March 11th, 2009, 10:11 AM	#6
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	I don't think he wants to record LIVE to Digibeta, just wants to transfer everything over at the end of the day.......right? I'm too lazy to get out my EX3 manual, but double check that you can down convert the HD-SDI output to standard def SDI. I know the camera will do this with the component and composite outputs, but I'm not sure about the SDI. (crossing my fingers for you) If you're able to connect it and have the camera do the down convert, then that would be the best way to go. Don't go to DV. I did a test the other day using FCP, our AJA Io HD and a JVC 24-inch Pro monitor. I compared the difference in quality between Beta SP tape captured in DV, ProRes, ProRes HQ and 8-bit uncompressed. The last three looked very similar in quality, but the DV capture looked aweful in comparison. After working 100% with DV for the last 7 years, I was very surprised to see just how poor the quality was. It was an eye opener. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 11th, 2009, 11:46 PM	#8
G.A. Kokes Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NJ / NY Tri-State Area Posts: 31	On the same topic... We have an EX shoot that will ultimately be transferred to digiBeta tape by a professional lab. Is it best to shoot 1080 60i? Will that give them the easiest conversion path? Anyone with experience please chime. Thanks, G __________________ Video Production in New York City and Philadelphia . TV Commercial Productions

March 11th, 2009, 02:50 AM	#5
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Reason I don't want to rent or buy anything is this is a charity job. I did speak to the network and they'd prefer Digibetacam although they also take DV. Somehow I can't stomach shooting XDCAM and delivering DV even though I'll have to pay for the tape out of my own pocket. The good news is I have 36 hours after the shoot to deliver the footage and they only need enough coverage for a 30 second spot. Regarding getting anything other than SDI out of the EX1 I'd sure suggest an external converter, the location and weakness of the component and composite connectors would be quite a distraction. I have run firewire out to a HDV deck to record a concert (pre MxR) but I was sweating it the whole show watching that 4 pin connector and I had a confidence monitor on the output of the VCR. I think AJA do a quite small box that'll do SDI and component to composite.

March 16th, 2009, 02:36 AM	#10
Michael Power Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 47	I've shot a lot of work on HDV etc and outputted it to digibeta for broadcast with good results. My recommendation is either do your edit, finish as uncompressed or prores and take hard drive to suite (something/one like Simon and Tim at Voodoo at Fox Studios for mastering to Digibeta) or just take camera there and digitise on their FCP timeline and output to DB. They and their rates are reasonable.