EX-Clip B-Avid-DVDIT-DVD A mess. at DVinfo.net

Tracey Brown · February 22nd, 2009, 04:35 AM

Hello everyone, I am new here and I am glad to see there is a place for questions and answers for people who use an EX1. I have been going a little mad and pulling my hair out from frustration.
Please excuse my ignorance when it comes to computer talk. It is all basically new to me; I am in an age group that was not conditioned to this environment. I need the help of someone who has the patience to explain things to me in basic steps. I have shot some footage with an EX1 and have many questions with regard to editing. I set the camera to Pal, shot in 1080 25p. I put the footage to hard drive and use Clip Browser 2. I have Avid Media Composer 3 and I use DVD IT 6.3. and XP Pro.
I export the files from Clip Browser (off hard drive) as MXF files for NLE, I import into avid at 1-1. I cut a sequence and add effects. I try to export from Avid. I export as a QuickTime movie, with settings at same as sorce, 25, video and audio, color levels 601/709, aspect ratio 601 non square 1920/1080. Out it goes.
I open DVD IT, I import the .mov file, it looks a little strange washed and flickering. I try to burn. 30 minutes later I have a DVD that looks crap and washed flickering and squashed. Could you tell me if it is the compiling from DVD IT or the way I sent it out from Avid?
I want to get a 9 minute piece out of Avid in HD and put it to a DVD, please can someone help me.
TB

George Angeludis · February 22nd, 2009, 07:12 AM

When you say 1:1 you mean that you created a 1080/25p project and imported there the files?

Did you export (QT movie) with DnxHD 120 or 185 and as source or did you changed codecs?

Third as you can see in this Matrix DVD it pro 6 isn't qualified for use with MC3. I don't think this is your problem though.

I think that the codec used might be the problem.

Tracey Brown · February 22nd, 2009, 08:18 AM

Hello there George,
1-1 I think was a choice when importing file from hard drive to Avid. Comes up when you choose file to import / open.

Export .mov with DN:HD 185 tried same as source and then changed codec to 185 and custom for rest. All for HD as far as I can tell.

Is there something better than DVD IT, do you have a recomendation and a recipie.

TB

Chris Leong · February 22nd, 2009, 09:30 AM

G'Day Tracey!

Might I ask what computer you're using?

I'm on a mainly Apple network and use both Avid and FCP, I tend to favour using Apple's Compressor and then use DVD Pro, also Apple, for the authoring. That's just to keep job tracking simple. However, I also use DVDIt on a WinXP machine for Blu Ray authoring, and EX1 footage works fine along that pipeline. It's just that I seldom use DVDIt for SD DVDs, is all.

I'm doing quite a bit of EX1 to DVD work at the moment, both on Avid and Final Cut. Mostly I'd say everything works fine until the Quicktime export and then usually one is looking at a washed out picture.

But I get ahead of myself. Let's take the first part first.

On the camera:
Have you played around with your Picture Profile settings? Does the picture look decent off your camera? Or does it look like a RAW stills photo, maximised for data acquisition and coloring/grading/timing in post (rather than good looks out of the box)?

Second:
Have you run color patch/chart all the way through your pipeline yet?

i.e. Did you shoot a series of real color and B&W test charts and watch what happens to them:

a) off camera
b) off laptop/digitizing device
c) off your NLE,
d) off the output Quicktime,
e) off the compressor output,
f) off the DVD authoring program's screen and
g) off as many different DVD players as you can?
Just doing that will tell you a whole lot about your particular process.

* for all of this, and important *
What monitors are you judging your system's performance with? Are they calibrated?
I think you'll find that if you use just your computer monitors without going into their calibration menus that your judgement will be skewed right off. Google "calibrating your monitor" to learn how to do that or RTFM, my friend.

Third:
I agree that the compression and DVD stage seems to be where your image gets degraded. This is where it mostly happens with me, anyway.

Please confirm this by viewing your original Avid output Quicktime and comparing that with the DVD .VOB stream from DVDIt. Use an independent vewing program like ALC player or MPEG Streamclip to do that, they're both free off the Internet.

Possible solutions:

Find the weak link in your pipeline and put a magnifying glass to that link. Triple check all your settings and preferences tow at least a stage either side of the link that you're investigating - make very short (20 sec) chart clips and say: "okay, what happens to my clip if I change this setting? this one?", etc., very methodically through every setting possible or impossible.

Substitute a different program for your suspected weak link and see what happens to the test clip.

For example, 1) try an independent MPEG encoder such as TMPGEnc's Express 4.x or indeed MPEG Streamclip to compress the output Quicktime file into the MP2/AC3 files that go into your DVDIt or other authoring software.

2) Find a friend with DVD Pro on an Apple, or a high end Sonic workstation, or just iDVD and push your test clip through them.

Most people won't mind doing a 20 second clip and the extra knowledge gained from the experiment.

It may all be computers these days, mate, but they're just machines too.

Hope that helps.
Feel free to ask anytime.
Cheers
Chris

Ray Bell · February 22nd, 2009, 09:35 AM

I hope your using DVDit Pro HD... anyway here is the forum for you to look at...

I think all you have to do is out a MPEG2 version from your Avid.

Legal MPEG-2 streams that pass through DVDit Pro HD - Roxio Community

Tracey Brown · February 22nd, 2009, 10:57 AM

Wow Chris, I have to remember the bits/parts … Intel board, core 2 processor, 4 gig ram,Nvidia 1700 graf card, 3 hdd 250 each?, DVD burner, BD burner, twin screens 24 inch high def. Xp pro op-system, Avid MC 3,Clip browser 2, DVDit 6.3. All for one PC or workstation.
I shot with the ex1 mostly using naturel light, I used profile recommended on a web site by a fellow by the name of Philip Bloom (I think) anyway the pictures look great until I put them in Avid. In clip browser they look very good. I see a little movement blur on a tilt down and a small amount in a couple of slow pans but that will be another issue for later. I have to use the footage I have now.

Have you run color patch/chart all the way through your pipeline yet? No I did not, it never even crossed my mind.

i.e. Did you shoot a series of real color and B&W test charts and watch what happens to them:

a) off camera
b) off laptop/digitizing device
c) off your NLE,
d) off the output Quicktime,
e) off the compressor output,
f) off the DVD authoring program's screen and
g) off as many different DVD players as you can?
Just doing that will tell you a whole lot about your particular process.

No I did not, same as above.

I think I will get the Tmpg thing and have a look through that. I just need to get 9mins out of the stuff I have in front of me now, then I can look at other issues and where I have made mistakes with the camera and there will be a few for sure.

Ray Bell, I will try an mpeg2 out now and see what happens.
TB

Chris Leong · February 22nd, 2009, 11:37 AM

Hey Tracey
Looks like you have a combination of uncalibrated monitors and a compression issue, mate.
If you say that the orig footage looks good until it does into the Avid, would that be as watched from your computer screens? Or do you have a Firewire or other tape deck and a TV/broadcast monitor attached to your Avid as well?
Have you tried, say, feeding a direct signal from your camera to the computer and seeing what the computer screens make of it as compared to your camera screen?
I'd say you could start there and see where it takes you.
Keep us posted!
Cheers
Chris

Tracey Brown · February 22nd, 2009, 12:00 PM

It looks like mpeg2 may do the trick, I sent it from avid as mpeg2 and when I put it in DVDit and played it in the simulation screen it looks good. Right now I have told it to burn a dvd.
The proof will be when I play it inside or on a HD tele and on a standard pal tele. I only hope this comes out 16:9 and not 4:3 like before.
Thanks for your help and advise to date all it is much aprisiated.
Let you know how it turns out later OK.

TB

Chris Leong · February 22nd, 2009, 12:07 PM

I agree, what Ray said, MP2s are the format for optical disks.
AFAIR, there are settings for "preserve aspect ratio" and the like, or "letterbox SD" somewhere in the line that will take care of the SD TV issue for you. I've actually used a free video converter available online to change aspect ratios after the fact and it works well.
Cheers!
Chris

George Angeludis · February 22nd, 2009, 12:11 PM

have you tried QT reference instead? I have Avid DVD and it works like a charm.
It's better to use same as source but when you import you have to use the correct project.
Just use Send to DVD but not authoring. Send as DVD burn and see the results.
Sending as mpeg2 means MC makes a transcoding to mpeg2 and then DVD it makes it again.

Mitchell Lewis · February 22nd, 2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracey Brown

I try to export from Avid. I export as a QuickTime movie, with settings at same as sorce, 25, video and audio, color levels 601/709, aspect ratio 601 non square 1920/1080. Out it goes.

HD footage is square pixels. Because you had it set to non-square instead of square, could this be part of the problem?

Tracey Brown · February 23rd, 2009, 05:54 AM

I will look at everything you folks posted and try anything and all ideas. The last burn I did came out as 4:3 somehow, I don't get it? I checked and double checked settings all were for wide screen. Mitchell, I am sure I checked the box for square Pix but I will even look back at that. Still trying for a good result, one good thing though is I am spending time in front of and with the machine so I am learning all the time.

TB

George Angeludis · February 23rd, 2009, 08:00 AM

Tracey if you mean DVD it burned it as 4:3, this is because you need to change the flag of the clip inside DVD It for an SD DVD.
DVD It as Avid DVD (which is partially the same program) can't set the flag for 16:9 ratio SD DVD.

Graeme Fullick · February 24th, 2009, 04:24 AM

Tracey,

George is correct here - you have to export from avid as a Quicktime reference file. You will also need to do a video mixdown to convert your Long GOP files to a DNxHD first.

THere are some really good tutorials available on avids web site by Douglas (drbgaijin) - look here
Avid Media Composer - PC - Avid Community

and here

Camera to web

I hope that this doesn't break any forum rules.

All the best,

Graeme

Tracey Brown · February 24th, 2009, 07:45 AM

Thank you Graham and George, I have now looked at Dougs site and also from another site at 80 tutorials. I tried Video Mixdown as per parts 1-6 of his stuff. When it came out it never matched up to the sound tracks ? But I will try it all over again. I have tried sending out Avid DN:HD and there was a setting I missed about 16:9. I will try that again as well.
Also I got TMPG put on the computer and have put a small test piece through that and things look a bit better at this point. I am getting a bit more exited about the footage now I am progressing a little. The more I tell myself do it again T the more I am learning. I am actually ejoying the learning curve. (pretty sick hey) Don't take much to keep this old fart happy :).
Thanks again one and all.

TB

February 22nd, 2009, 04:35 AM	#1
Tracey Brown New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 6	EX-Clip B-Avid-DVDIT-DVD A mess. Hello everyone, I am new here and I am glad to see there is a place for questions and answers for people who use an EX1. I have been going a little mad and pulling my hair out from frustration. Please excuse my ignorance when it comes to computer talk. It is all basically new to me; I am in an age group that was not conditioned to this environment. I need the help of someone who has the patience to explain things to me in basic steps. I have shot some footage with an EX1 and have many questions with regard to editing. I set the camera to Pal, shot in 1080 25p. I put the footage to hard drive and use Clip Browser 2. I have Avid Media Composer 3 and I use DVD IT 6.3. and XP Pro. I export the files from Clip Browser (off hard drive) as MXF files for NLE, I import into avid at 1-1. I cut a sequence and add effects. I try to export from Avid. I export as a QuickTime movie, with settings at same as sorce, 25, video and audio, color levels 601/709, aspect ratio 601 non square 1920/1080. Out it goes. I open DVD IT, I import the .mov file, it looks a little strange washed and flickering. I try to burn. 30 minutes later I have a DVD that looks crap and washed flickering and squashed. Could you tell me if it is the compiling from DVD IT or the way I sent it out from Avid? I want to get a 9 minute piece out of Avid in HD and put it to a DVD, please can someone help me. TB

February 22nd, 2009, 07:12 AM	#2
George Angeludis Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Thessaloniki, Greece. Posts: 179	When you say 1:1 you mean that you created a 1080/25p project and imported there the files? Did you export (QT movie) with DnxHD 120 or 185 and as source or did you changed codecs? Third as you can see in this Matrix DVD it pro 6 isn't qualified for use with MC3. I don't think this is your problem though. I think that the codec used might be the problem. __________________ My Films My Works FB

February 22nd, 2009, 09:30 AM	#4
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	G'Day Tracey! Might I ask what computer you're using? I'm on a mainly Apple network and use both Avid and FCP, I tend to favour using Apple's Compressor and then use DVD Pro, also Apple, for the authoring. That's just to keep job tracking simple. However, I also use DVDIt on a WinXP machine for Blu Ray authoring, and EX1 footage works fine along that pipeline. It's just that I seldom use DVDIt for SD DVDs, is all. I'm doing quite a bit of EX1 to DVD work at the moment, both on Avid and Final Cut. Mostly I'd say everything works fine until the Quicktime export and then usually one is looking at a washed out picture. But I get ahead of myself. Let's take the first part first. On the camera: Have you played around with your Picture Profile settings? Does the picture look decent off your camera? Or does it look like a RAW stills photo, maximised for data acquisition and coloring/grading/timing in post (rather than good looks out of the box)? Second: Have you run color patch/chart all the way through your pipeline yet? i.e. Did you shoot a series of real color and B&W test charts and watch what happens to them: a) off camera b) off laptop/digitizing device c) off your NLE, d) off the output Quicktime, e) off the compressor output, f) off the DVD authoring program's screen and g) off as many different DVD players as you can? Just doing that will tell you a whole lot about your particular process. * for all of this, and important * What monitors are you judging your system's performance with? Are they calibrated? I think you'll find that if you use just your computer monitors without going into their calibration menus that your judgement will be skewed right off. Google "calibrating your monitor" to learn how to do that or RTFM, my friend. Third: I agree that the compression and DVD stage seems to be where your image gets degraded. This is where it mostly happens with me, anyway. Please confirm this by viewing your original Avid output Quicktime and comparing that with the DVD .VOB stream from DVDIt. Use an independent vewing program like ALC player or MPEG Streamclip to do that, they're both free off the Internet. Possible solutions: Find the weak link in your pipeline and put a magnifying glass to that link. Triple check all your settings and preferences tow at least a stage either side of the link that you're investigating - make very short (20 sec) chart clips and say: "okay, what happens to my clip if I change this setting? this one?", etc., very methodically through every setting possible or impossible. Substitute a different program for your suspected weak link and see what happens to the test clip. For example, 1) try an independent MPEG encoder such as TMPGEnc's Express 4.x or indeed MPEG Streamclip to compress the output Quicktime file into the MP2/AC3 files that go into your DVDIt or other authoring software. 2) Find a friend with DVD Pro on an Apple, or a high end Sonic workstation, or just iDVD and push your test clip through them. Most people won't mind doing a 20 second clip and the extra knowledge gained from the experiment. It may all be computers these days, mate, but they're just machines too. Hope that helps. Feel free to ask anytime. Cheers Chris __________________ "The content, not the container."

February 22nd, 2009, 11:37 AM	#7
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Hey Tracey Looks like you have a combination of uncalibrated monitors and a compression issue, mate. If you say that the orig footage looks good until it does into the Avid, would that be as watched from your computer screens? Or do you have a Firewire or other tape deck and a TV/broadcast monitor attached to your Avid as well? Have you tried, say, feeding a direct signal from your camera to the computer and seeing what the computer screens make of it as compared to your camera screen? I'd say you could start there and see where it takes you. Keep us posted! Cheers Chris __________________ "The content, not the container."

February 22nd, 2009, 12:07 PM	#9
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	I agree, what Ray said, MP2s are the format for optical disks. AFAIR, there are settings for "preserve aspect ratio" and the like, or "letterbox SD" somewhere in the line that will take care of the SD TV issue for you. I've actually used a free video converter available online to change aspect ratios after the fact and it works well. Cheers! Chris __________________ "The content, not the container."

February 22nd, 2009, 08:18 AM	#3
Tracey Brown New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 6	Hello there George, 1-1 I think was a choice when importing file from hard drive to Avid. Comes up when you choose file to import / open. Export .mov with DN:HD 185 tried same as source and then changed codec to 185 and custom for rest. All for HD as far as I can tell. Is there something better than DVD IT, do you have a recomendation and a recipie. TB

February 22nd, 2009, 09:35 AM	#5
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	I hope your using DVDit Pro HD... anyway here is the forum for you to look at... I think all you have to do is out a MPEG2 version from your Avid. Legal MPEG-2 streams that pass through DVDit Pro HD - Roxio Community

February 22nd, 2009, 10:57 AM	#6
Tracey Brown New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 6	Wow Chris, I have to remember the bits/parts … Intel board, core 2 processor, 4 gig ram,Nvidia 1700 graf card, 3 hdd 250 each?, DVD burner, BD burner, twin screens 24 inch high def. Xp pro op-system, Avid MC 3,Clip browser 2, DVDit 6.3. All for one PC or workstation. I shot with the ex1 mostly using naturel light, I used profile recommended on a web site by a fellow by the name of Philip Bloom (I think) anyway the pictures look great until I put them in Avid. In clip browser they look very good. I see a little movement blur on a tilt down and a small amount in a couple of slow pans but that will be another issue for later. I have to use the footage I have now. Have you run color patch/chart all the way through your pipeline yet? No I did not, it never even crossed my mind. i.e. Did you shoot a series of real color and B&W test charts and watch what happens to them: a) off camera b) off laptop/digitizing device c) off your NLE, d) off the output Quicktime, e) off the compressor output, f) off the DVD authoring program's screen and g) off as many different DVD players as you can? Just doing that will tell you a whole lot about your particular process. No I did not, same as above. I think I will get the Tmpg thing and have a look through that. I just need to get 9mins out of the stuff I have in front of me now, then I can look at other issues and where I have made mistakes with the camera and there will be a few for sure. Ray Bell, I will try an mpeg2 out now and see what happens. TB

February 22nd, 2009, 12:00 PM	#8
Tracey Brown New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 6	It looks like mpeg2 may do the trick, I sent it from avid as mpeg2 and when I put it in DVDit and played it in the simulation screen it looks good. Right now I have told it to burn a dvd. The proof will be when I play it inside or on a HD tele and on a standard pal tele. I only hope this comes out 16:9 and not 4:3 like before. Thanks for your help and advise to date all it is much aprisiated. Let you know how it turns out later OK. TB

February 22nd, 2009, 12:11 PM	#10
George Angeludis Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Thessaloniki, Greece. Posts: 179	have you tried QT reference instead? I have Avid DVD and it works like a charm. It's better to use same as source but when you import you have to use the correct project. Just use Send to DVD but not authoring. Send as DVD burn and see the results. Sending as mpeg2 means MC makes a transcoding to mpeg2 and then DVD it makes it again. __________________ My Films My Works FB

February 23rd, 2009, 05:54 AM	#12
Tracey Brown New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 6	I will look at everything you folks posted and try anything and all ideas. The last burn I did came out as 4:3 somehow, I don't get it? I checked and double checked settings all were for wide screen. Mitchell, I am sure I checked the box for square Pix but I will even look back at that. Still trying for a good result, one good thing though is I am spending time in front of and with the machine so I am learning all the time. TB

February 23rd, 2009, 08:00 AM	#13
George Angeludis Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Thessaloniki, Greece. Posts: 179	Tracey if you mean DVD it burned it as 4:3, this is because you need to change the flag of the clip inside DVD It for an SD DVD. DVD It as Avid DVD (which is partially the same program) can't set the flag for 16:9 ratio SD DVD. __________________ My Films My Works FB

February 24th, 2009, 04:24 AM	#14
Graeme Fullick Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Newcastle, Australia Posts: 337	Tracey, George is correct here - you have to export from avid as a Quicktime reference file. You will also need to do a video mixdown to convert your Long GOP files to a DNxHD first. THere are some really good tutorials available on avids web site by Douglas (drbgaijin) - look here Avid Media Composer - PC - Avid Community and here Camera to web I hope that this doesn't break any forum rules. All the best, Graeme __________________ Graeme

February 24th, 2009, 07:45 AM	#15
Tracey Brown New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 6	Thank you Graham and George, I have now looked at Dougs site and also from another site at 80 tutorials. I tried Video Mixdown as per parts 1-6 of his stuff. When it came out it never matched up to the sound tracks ? But I will try it all over again. I have tried sending out Avid DN:HD and there was a setting I missed about 16:9. I will try that again as well. Also I got TMPG put on the computer and have put a small test piece through that and things look a bit better at this point. I am getting a bit more exited about the footage now I am progressing a little. The more I tell myself do it again T the more I am learning. I am actually ejoying the learning curve. (pretty sick hey) Don't take much to keep this old fart happy :). Thanks again one and all. TB