New EX3/Nikon adaptor. Whats Your Colour Of Choice?

Derek Reich · February 13th, 2009, 12:37 PM

Not sure I really want to enter the fray here, but what the heck. I just want to say in Mike's defense, that I have purchased his adapter and have found it to be of excellent quality and design. Personally (and no offense intended to those who care about this sort of thing) deciding on what color an adapter should be is IMHO irrelevant. The important thing is how well it performs, and what your image result will be. I could care less how my camera 'looks' if it is providing me with a decent image.
Is the price for Mike's adapter too high? I can't say.... I don't design and build things like this. I leave that up to people smarter than me, but I get the benefit of their hard work. If you compare the price of Mike's adapter to the Sony LO-32BMT (2/3" adapter, which I also have purchased), it's a bargain. I seriously doubt Mike's resources can compare to Sony when it comes to design and marketing of a product, so why does Sony charge nearly $700 for what appears to be the same amount of design and engineering involved?
On some level, because of the limited application and demand for products like this initially, we all have to pay for the R&D. As that demand grows, the price comes down, and competitors enter the marketplace. The early adopters always pay the price highest price. Mike has told me that his price with a ramped up production will now be substantially lower ($135BPS) as the profit margin (we all have to make some money for our efforts, don't we?) can be spread out over more product sales.
I'm not going to make any judgments over design infringements or any of that.... it's not my business. There is probably a better place for that discussion than in this forum, however.
That said, I just wanted to at least put my two cents in for what I feel is an excellently designed product which has more than met my expectations which are rather high. I think also the cost was higher for those of us in the U.S., because of the exchange rate. I seem to remember a lot of people also bemoaning the cost of Doug Jensen's DVD when it had to be shipped overseas.... but that didn't mean for a second that the DVD wasn't worth it. I think anyone who paid the extra price and received the DVD felt it was money well spent.
I feel the same way about Mike's product, and will eagerly await the possible arrival soon of a Canon EF adapter. (the holy grail for me!)

I'm not saying Steve's adapter won't be of high quality, either. I just wanted to give my 2 cents worth with the product I have personal experience using.... isn't that what this forum is about after all?
Happy shooting

Brian Luce · February 13th, 2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Tapa

I
I just hope these good people on here continue to support the "working man"

Don't worry Mike, you've got the advantage of having "Got there first". I've used your adapters and think they're great. Your support is also first rate. Next time I need an adaptor you'll be the first person I'll call. In a community this small, I always go with what I know and what I know will work. Nothing against anyone else, I just go with the brand I'm familiar with.

Eric Gulbransen · February 13th, 2009, 11:02 PM

Nicely said Derek. Thanks for pointing out the new price for the MTF adapter. $195 US is a steal in my opinion. I remember when I bought my Zoerk JVC/Nikon adapter. That thing was half the size of the EX3 adapter and it cost me almost $400 when I purchased it. Then I had to send it back to Germany because it was defective. The Nikon side of the mount was really sloppy. Go ahead and roll over this image to see for yourself.

I called Mike after that. The MTF adapter was much better made. Better service and design too. I was so happy with Mike's adapter that I put a page together on the differences between the adapters to help others here on DVinfo. Still to this day the only way you can get to this page is from here on DVinfo. I never even linked to it from my own website. So many people have helped me here I thought I'd help others back.

It's good to know you're buying something well thought out, well built, and especially accurate when it comes to images.

Tight community here. Sorry to see things get heated.

Ofer Levy · February 13th, 2009, 11:57 PM

Mike Tapa started designing the Nikon-EX3 adapter as soon as the EX3 was announced and released the adapter very early. For me it was crucial as I could not work without this adapter. The same applies to the Nikon Z7 adapter - again, Mike was the first to release it and made it possible for me to use the camera. I was more than happy to pay his price which I found very reasonable. I believe it is in the intererst of everyone to support Mike as when a new adapter will be needed in 1-2 years time he will be the one to release it first and make it possible for people like me to make a living months before the other manufacturers join in.

Cheers,

Ofer Levy
Sydney

Steve Phillipps · February 14th, 2009, 03:52 AM

I'll tell you one thing that would be good, a really firm locking system on the Nikon end. I've used Nikons on a few cameras in the past, notably Aatons, and the only problem is the fairly naff Nikon lens mount and most specifically its locking mechanism. You can't beat a clamp-type system like PL or the Aaton mount, or even Sony B4, the quick release twist systems with a locking pin that stills cameras use are always very wimpy. I wonder if there would be a way to put some sort of clamp mechanism on there so that you still twist it so the flanges engage, but then a lever applies some sort of clamping to it. It would stop sagging and also twisting during focus/zooming.
Over you to you Steve/Mike/Les!
Steve

Bob Grant · February 14th, 2009, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Shovlar

You are exactly right Steve. There is nothng to "copy", other than each end which have to be "copied". One end is a nikon female fitting, the other the EX3 coupling. Between is a piece of aluminium tube the right length for back focus. Thats it. The rest is what colour do you want it?

I thought the tube should be made out of Invar otherwise backfocus will change with temperature.

Invar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Steve Phillipps · February 14th, 2009, 05:49 AM

Never heard of it! Does that mean that the actual mounts on all lenses are made of it too?
Steve

Bob Grant · February 14th, 2009, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

Never heard of it! Does that mean that the actual mounts on all lenses are made of it too?
Steve

The only lenses I'm that familiar with are PL mount. The lens flanges are aluminium, the P+S PL mounts seem to be invar judging by the hardness and cost. Locking Al to Al is probably not a good look for other reasons such as cold welding causing things to jam. I also note you can buy 3rd party mounts for the Red camera made of invar so it's quite commonly used for this purpose. I'd imagine it's a beast to machine though.

Steve Phillipps · February 14th, 2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Grant

Locking Al to Al is probably not a good look for other reasons such as cold welding causing things to jam. .

Don't understand that at all, there's no good reason not to use clamping systems. Canon FD used to have a breach-lock clamp mechanism before they phased them out and used bayonet instead (same mount and same lenses though) so no reason why not. Only speed of use is an issue.

Steve

Stuart Wilson · February 14th, 2009, 09:04 AM

If and when I get my EX3 I will probably get a Nikon adapter as well as I have a full set of Nikons finest. My choice will be made simply on the price of the product which does the job. If Steve's and Mike's adapters work, and theres nothing to suggest they dont or wont at this point in time, then the cheapest one will get my business. Simple as.

Theres no room for sentiment in this situation, its business for these guys, pure and simple. As long as theres no copyright or patent infringement then good luck to both parties.

A bit of healthy competition in any market, be it cameras, cars or whatever, never did the end user any harm, its a captive market than allows folk to charge over the odds. Once competition is introduced to a captive market producer, its amazing how quickly they will find a way of lowering their price. Now the cynical amongst us will simpy think they should have sold at a lower price anyway, instead of taking advantage of the lack of competition to charge over the odds for their products.

Stuart

Mike Tapa · February 14th, 2009, 09:13 AM

In order to design an adaptor which "worked right away"
You would need to know the register of Nikon lenses AND the 'in air' register of the EX3 mount.

Now we all know what the Nikon side of the equation is but at the time I was designing my adaptor, the EX3 in air register was a complete mystery to everyone outside of Sony and as far as I know, still has not been made public. (please correct me if I'm wrong, links?)

Until now, none of these pieces of crucial info has been discussed here other than a piece of tube being the "right length" (I must remember that one for my CAD, the right length ±0.01mm)

So lens register minus camera register = "the right length"

Taking measurements from the 1/2" to EX3 adaptor is no use whatsoever as this contains a glass block which increases the length of the light path depending on glass type and its thickness.

Im not accusing anyone of anything, I'm simply asking a question, as any curious and interested engineer would.

So, I'm still puzzled as to how the missing info was arrived at.

How can anyone Know what the "right length" is without knowing the EX3 register?

I have shared some info here.
As one engineer to another, perhaps Steve would like to explain how he calculated the EX3 register.

Please remember, this is to design an adaptor that works first time.

I don't mean to have a go at anyone here, but if it was so easy to build such devices knowing, at most half the data required, why isn't everyone doing it?

On another note, I would like to thank those who have supported me on here, the numerous emails, and all those who have already taken advantage of my new pricing.

I'm thinking of using a new slogan "now you can afford an original"

Mike Tapa · February 14th, 2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

I'll tell you one thing that would be good, a really firm locking system on the Nikon end. I've used Nikons on a few cameras in the past, notably Aatons, and the only problem is the fairly naff Nikon lens mount and most specifically its locking mechanism. You can't beat a clamp-type system like PL or the Aaton mount, or even Sony B4, the quick release twist systems with a locking pin that stills cameras use are always very wimpy. I wonder if there would be a way to put some sort of clamp mechanism on there so that you still twist it so the flanges engage, but then a lever applies some sort of clamping to it. It would stop sagging and also twisting during focus/zooming.
Over you to you Steve/Mike/Les!
Steve

I had been working on something similar for Nikon lenses but because there was not enough room on my Nikon to 1/3" adaptor, I put it on the back burner.

Will look at it again for the EX3 and let you know.

Eric Gulbransen · February 14th, 2009, 11:51 AM

While you're at it Mike, think "G" centric. Not necessarily to replace what you are already selling, but perhaps in addition to. I already have two Nikons that I can't (respectfully) use on the EX3 because of this annoying elimination of Nikon's manual iris control on their new "G" lenses.

And Steve, I couldn't agree more. I completely hate how still lenses move on their OEM mounts. Got to be a better way. And by the way on your telephoto setup, how are you suspending the EX3? (just looked at the photo)

Steve Shovlar · February 14th, 2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart Wilson

If and when I get my EX3 I will probably get a Nikon adapter as well as I have a full set of Nikons finest. My choice will be made simply on the price of the product which does the job. If Steve's and Mike's adapters work, and theres nothing to suggest they dont or wont at this point in time, then the cheapest one will get my business. Simple as.

Theres no room for sentiment in this situation, its business for these guys, pure and simple. As long as theres no copyright or patent infringement then good luck to both parties.

A bit of healthy competition in any market, be it cameras, cars or whatever, never did the end user any harm, its a captive market than allows folk to charge over the odds. Once competition is introduced to a captive market producer, its amazing how quickly they will find a way of lowering their price. Now the cynical amongst us will simpy think they should have sold at a lower price anyway, instead of taking advantage of the lack of competition to charge over the odds for their products.

Stuart

True indeed. We have been making the adaptors all afternoon and they look great. They will be heading off to be anodised early next week and once back and assembled the first ones will be heading out of the door to our happy customers. If you want one of the first batch message me and I will add you to our expanding list. Being on the list puts you under no obligation to buy one, just means you get first refusal after you get to hear the price.

Cheers
Steve

Mike Tapa · February 14th, 2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Gulbransen

While you're at it Mike, think "G" centric. Not necessarily to replace what you are already selling, but perhaps in addition to. I already have two Nikons that I can't (respectfully) use on the EX3 because of this annoying elimination of Nikon's manual iris control on their new "G" lenses.

And Steve, I couldn't agree more. I completely hate how still lenses move on their OEM mounts. Got to be a better way. And by the way on your telephoto setup, how are you suspending the EX3? (just looked at the photo)

Eric, I'm at the moment working on the electronic interface for the Canon EF version.
At some point after I will look at something similar for the G lenses.

As usual, you will be one of the first to see my new gear, perhaps this time, even before they are officially launched.

February 13th, 2009, 12:37 PM	#31
Derek Reich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Washoe Valley, NV Posts: 304	Not sure I really want to enter the fray here, but what the heck. I just want to say in Mike's defense, that I have purchased his adapter and have found it to be of excellent quality and design. Personally (and no offense intended to those who care about this sort of thing) deciding on what color an adapter should be is IMHO irrelevant. The important thing is how well it performs, and what your image result will be. I could care less how my camera 'looks' if it is providing me with a decent image. Is the price for Mike's adapter too high? I can't say.... I don't design and build things like this. I leave that up to people smarter than me, but I get the benefit of their hard work. If you compare the price of Mike's adapter to the Sony LO-32BMT (2/3" adapter, which I also have purchased), it's a bargain. I seriously doubt Mike's resources can compare to Sony when it comes to design and marketing of a product, so why does Sony charge nearly $700 for what appears to be the same amount of design and engineering involved? On some level, because of the limited application and demand for products like this initially, we all have to pay for the R&D. As that demand grows, the price comes down, and competitors enter the marketplace. The early adopters always pay the price highest price. Mike has told me that his price with a ramped up production will now be substantially lower ($135BPS) as the profit margin (we all have to make some money for our efforts, don't we?) can be spread out over more product sales. I'm not going to make any judgments over design infringements or any of that.... it's not my business. There is probably a better place for that discussion than in this forum, however. That said, I just wanted to at least put my two cents in for what I feel is an excellently designed product which has more than met my expectations which are rather high. I think also the cost was higher for those of us in the U.S., because of the exchange rate. I seem to remember a lot of people also bemoaning the cost of Doug Jensen's DVD when it had to be shipped overseas.... but that didn't mean for a second that the DVD wasn't worth it. I think anyone who paid the extra price and received the DVD felt it was money well spent. I feel the same way about Mike's product, and will eagerly await the possible arrival soon of a Canon EF adapter. (the holy grail for me!) I'm not saying Steve's adapter won't be of high quality, either. I just wanted to give my 2 cents worth with the product I have personal experience using.... isn't that what this forum is about after all? Happy shooting __________________ www.zooprax.com

February 14th, 2009, 09:13 AM	#41
Mike Tapa Sponsor: MTF Services Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 80	In order to design an adaptor which "worked right away" You would need to know the register of Nikon lenses AND the 'in air' register of the EX3 mount. Now we all know what the Nikon side of the equation is but at the time I was designing my adaptor, the EX3 in air register was a complete mystery to everyone outside of Sony and as far as I know, still has not been made public. (please correct me if I'm wrong, links?) Until now, none of these pieces of crucial info has been discussed here other than a piece of tube being the "right length" (I must remember that one for my CAD, the right length ±0.01mm) So lens register minus camera register = "the right length" Taking measurements from the 1/2" to EX3 adaptor is no use whatsoever as this contains a glass block which increases the length of the light path depending on glass type and its thickness. Im not accusing anyone of anything, I'm simply asking a question, as any curious and interested engineer would. So, I'm still puzzled as to how the missing info was arrived at. How can anyone Know what the "right length" is without knowing the EX3 register? I have shared some info here. As one engineer to another, perhaps Steve would like to explain how he calculated the EX3 register. Please remember, this is to design an adaptor that works first time. I don't mean to have a go at anyone here, but if it was so easy to build such devices knowing, at most half the data required, why isn't everyone doing it? On another note, I would like to thank those who have supported me on here, the numerous emails, and all those who have already taken advantage of my new pricing. I'm thinking of using a new slogan "now you can afford an original" __________________ Mike Tapa http://www.mtfservices.com

February 13th, 2009, 11:02 PM	#33
Eric Gulbransen Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 520	Nicely said Derek. Thanks for pointing out the new price for the MTF adapter. $195 US is a steal in my opinion. I remember when I bought my Zoerk JVC/Nikon adapter. That thing was half the size of the EX3 adapter and it cost me almost $400 when I purchased it. Then I had to send it back to Germany because it was defective. The Nikon side of the mount was really sloppy. Go ahead and roll over this image to see for yourself. I called Mike after that. The MTF adapter was much better made. Better service and design too. I was so happy with Mike's adapter that I put a page together on the differences between the adapters to help others here on DVinfo. Still to this day the only way you can get to this page is from here on DVinfo. I never even linked to it from my own website. So many people have helped me here I thought I'd help others back. It's good to know you're buying something well thought out, well built, and especially accurate when it comes to images. Tight community here. Sorry to see things get heated.

February 13th, 2009, 11:57 PM	#34
Ofer Levy Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney-Australia Posts: 443	Mike Tapa started designing the Nikon-EX3 adapter as soon as the EX3 was announced and released the adapter very early. For me it was crucial as I could not work without this adapter. The same applies to the Nikon Z7 adapter - again, Mike was the first to release it and made it possible for me to use the camera. I was more than happy to pay his price which I found very reasonable. I believe it is in the intererst of everyone to support Mike as when a new adapter will be needed in 1-2 years time he will be the one to release it first and make it possible for people like me to make a living months before the other manufacturers join in. Cheers, Ofer Levy Sydney

February 14th, 2009, 03:52 AM	#35
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	I'll tell you one thing that would be good, a really firm locking system on the Nikon end. I've used Nikons on a few cameras in the past, notably Aatons, and the only problem is the fairly naff Nikon lens mount and most specifically its locking mechanism. You can't beat a clamp-type system like PL or the Aaton mount, or even Sony B4, the quick release twist systems with a locking pin that stills cameras use are always very wimpy. I wonder if there would be a way to put some sort of clamp mechanism on there so that you still twist it so the flanges engage, but then a lever applies some sort of clamping to it. It would stop sagging and also twisting during focus/zooming. Over you to you Steve/Mike/Les! Steve

February 14th, 2009, 05:49 AM	#37
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Never heard of it! Does that mean that the actual mounts on all lenses are made of it too? Steve

February 14th, 2009, 09:04 AM	#40
Stuart Wilson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Warrington, UK Posts: 48	If and when I get my EX3 I will probably get a Nikon adapter as well as I have a full set of Nikons finest. My choice will be made simply on the price of the product which does the job. If Steve's and Mike's adapters work, and theres nothing to suggest they dont or wont at this point in time, then the cheapest one will get my business. Simple as. Theres no room for sentiment in this situation, its business for these guys, pure and simple. As long as theres no copyright or patent infringement then good luck to both parties. A bit of healthy competition in any market, be it cameras, cars or whatever, never did the end user any harm, its a captive market than allows folk to charge over the odds. Once competition is introduced to a captive market producer, its amazing how quickly they will find a way of lowering their price. Now the cynical amongst us will simpy think they should have sold at a lower price anyway, instead of taking advantage of the lack of competition to charge over the odds for their products. Stuart

February 14th, 2009, 11:51 AM	#43
Eric Gulbransen Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 520	While you're at it Mike, think "G" centric. Not necessarily to replace what you are already selling, but perhaps in addition to. I already have two Nikons that I can't (respectfully) use on the EX3 because of this annoying elimination of Nikon's manual iris control on their new "G" lenses. And Steve, I couldn't agree more. I completely hate how still lenses move on their OEM mounts. Got to be a better way. And by the way on your telephoto setup, how are you suspending the EX3? (just looked at the photo)