EX1 for embedded Web Video? at DVinfo.net

Darren Ruddock · February 8th, 2009, 02:30 PM

Hi there,

Has anyone had any experience with using EX1 footage for web videos? I'm thinking company websites. There doesn't seem to be a lot of web video around my area and would like to take advantage of this.

I have joined Vimeo but then realised it is not for "corporate" use. Lovely, but seeing as they charge for the ability to embed it's a bit cheeky saying you can't upload commercials! Moan over.

Anyway, going by the Vimeo upload settings I would imagine 720p is better for web video? Plus does anybody know any good hosting sites that aren't against people making a bit of money??

Many thanks

Darren

Craig Seeman · February 8th, 2009, 06:02 PM

YouTube allows 720p video and even has a partnership program. I'm not sure if they support HD embedding offsite yet. Certainly many businesses use YouTube as part of their viral marketing campaigns.

Generally 720p web video takes a fair amount of download data rate, usually around 2000kbps and up. That's NO PROBLEM for some areas but others can't come close. It depends what the speed is the typical internet connection of your targeted viewer.

Rob Collins · February 9th, 2009, 09:44 AM

Exposure Room I believe has less strict rules: ExposureRoom

However, you'd be wise to invest in Squeeze or Episode (the best Mac-friendly choices to my knowledge) to compress your own Flash video. Many companies want a bit more control over their sites.

You can then use the JW Player with a commercial license: Order Commercial Licenses | LongTail Video | Home of the JW Player

Darren Ruddock · February 9th, 2009, 11:28 AM

Hi there,

Exposure room only shows HD at full screen size.

I dunno how it is working in the States but does not seem to be a lot of HD video on company websites in the UK at the moment.

Can the average business website host HD video itself? The maximum length I would look at for a project would probably only be 1-3 minutes as a taster on the site. I have found encoding with H264 this can be crunched down to around to 160mb.

For example, I have a possible job for a dog grooming parlor, max length 3 minutes to go on their site. So is flash a better bet for encoding than H264? Would a basic site (given that it had enough space) be able to handle the HD video?

Many thanks. This seems a bit of a black art at the moment. I'm trying to find out if its possible!

Darren Ruddock

Craig Seeman · February 9th, 2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Exposure room only shows HD at full screen size.

HD is either 1280x720 or 1980x1020 so by its nature it WILL take up a lot of screen real estate. If your computer screen is larger than 1280x720 it doesn't take up the full screen unless it is scaled up.

The bigger the frame size the higher the bit rate needed to encode to file with good quality. It also means the viewer needs an internet connection that can sustain that bit rate in order to playback (progressive download) that file in real time.

You need to know what speed the internet connection is of your targeted viewer. Generally people who have more money to spend and value high quality video playback on the web will spend more money on faster internet connections. Some geographic areas are limited in the speeds they offer.

In my area, I have 30,000kbps download and even mid level DSL connections get 3000kbps. Budget internet users tend not to be over 1500kbps with 768kbps DSL at the bottom. Your area may be different.

I find that 720p HD at 2000kbps looks OK. Vimeo is using around 1500kbps with ON2VP6. YouTube is using 2000kbps with peaks up to 4000kbps with H.264.

There's no "black art" about it. Know your target audience and pick the appropriate frame size and data rate.

Dan Chung · February 9th, 2009, 11:52 AM

The current favourite for company web video seems to be Brightcove. Although they do not offer HD as yet their video does look pretty good, certainly better than old pre HD Youtube. The NYT recently changed to Brightcove The NYTimes.com Prepares For HD Video; Drops the FeedRoom For Brightcove

Dan

Darren Ruddock · February 9th, 2009, 11:53 AM

If so, then how come the native Vimeo window shows HD at a smaller size and the same size Exposure Room window does not allow this but only if you go to the full HD window....hmmm???? Exposure room gives you 3 frame sizes but HD is only viewable in the largest window.

Nobody wants full size video on there website, just a scaled down high quality video such as the size displayed by the native Vimeo window or even smaller!

I have no problems watching Vimeo videos. Most people now have broadband!

Rob Collins · February 9th, 2009, 12:01 PM

We may need to clarify this. Are you intending to embed the video in HD in the client's site? If so, I would try to dissuade you--overkill for most viewers. Maybe put a link below the embedded video to an HD version for those interested. In addition to what Craig says about connection speed, the viewer's machine needs to be relatively new to be able to play back HD video smoothly.

The size of the video should be based on the layout of the page. If it's a dedicated video page, then I like 640x360. But often a short video should be on the home page (even autoplay)--then maybe 400x226 or smaller. If you know going in that they want this, it should affect how you shoot--stay away from wide shots with small details in them.

I'm doing Flash 8 video now (On2VP6) just because it's a bit more common and less chance a viewer will get to the page and have to upgrade their player. It's not quite as good as H264, but close.

As to the hosting, if they use one of the bigger companies they should be fine--check to see what bandwidth they have.

Craig Seeman · February 9th, 2009, 12:04 PM

When you play Vimeo HD video at "full screen" you can turn scaling on or off. ON is full screen. Off is at 1280x720 (as to whether that's full screen depends on your screen).

ExposureRoom video also plays at 1280x720 when the HD playback is selected so I'm not sure at all what you're talking about.

Both Vimeo and ExposureRoom play at 1280x720. In Vimeo you turn ON/OFF scalling in Full Screen mode. In ExposureRoom HD is 720 (no need to enter Full Screen mode).

Quote:

Nobody wants full size video on there website, just a scaled down high quality video such as the size displayed by the native Vimeo window or even smaller!

Then chose the frame size you want. That's not HD though. Some will chose 960x540, others 640x360. Pick frame size and data rate you want. Encode (with codec of choice) and embed on your web page. No need to pay for external services for that. Some like Vimeo HD embed ($60/year) for the convenience but it's not difficult to do it yourself.

Darren Ruddock · February 9th, 2009, 12:07 PM

This is what I mean. you guys are way ahead of us on this in the states!

I spose I need to research more. It just seems a shame that having an EX1, it seems so hard to get a few minutes of quality footage onto a website!

Darren Ruddock · February 9th, 2009, 12:13 PM

Well I meant a scaled HD footage!! Sorry!! Still better than DV :)

Dan Chung · February 9th, 2009, 12:17 PM

Darren, there is little available in the US that you can't use and buy in the UK (since Vimeo allowed plus membership worldwide)

Most US and UK companies I know use Brightcove anyway, I'm not a great fan or anything, its just that Brightcove is aimed at biz users. http://www.brightcove.com/resources/...video-webcast/

Dan

Craig Seeman · February 9th, 2009, 12:20 PM

I'm absolutely not sure what issue you're having.

You can certainly put 1280x720 video on your site as long as the viewers have the bandwidth, computing power, screen real estate to playback the video.

Many people don't want videos to take up that much screen real estate but it's certainly VERY EASY to do. Do your viewers have the internet speed?

"Broadband" is meaningless since that can be as low as 384kbps on slow DSL connections. You need to know their speed.

Speedtest.net - The Global Broadband Speed Test

Frame size, data rate, screen real estate, internet connection speed. That's it. Nothing else to "research." You're not explaining what you're having the problem with.

Darren Ruddock · February 9th, 2009, 12:24 PM

HI Dan,

Vimeo plus (the paid account) allows you to embed but they wont allow commercial work! They say you can use it to "show your work off" but not to embed corporate films on business sites. Understandable, but makes Vimeo Plus useless if you cannot embed into business sites.

They want to keep Vimeo "pure" from commercialism! Nice idea, shame its the age of capitalism!

Dan Chung · February 9th, 2009, 12:33 PM

I know, that's why I'm suggesting you look at Brightcove. It's not HD but most companies seem happy with it.

I only mention Vimeo Plus because it was the only thing I know that was initially available to US customers. The UK is no further behind than anywhere else as far as I know.

Dan

February 8th, 2009, 02:30 PM	#1
Darren Ruddock Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southend, UK Posts: 165	EX1 for embedded Web Video? Hi there, Has anyone had any experience with using EX1 footage for web videos? I'm thinking company websites. There doesn't seem to be a lot of web video around my area and would like to take advantage of this. I have joined Vimeo but then realised it is not for "corporate" use. Lovely, but seeing as they charge for the ability to embed it's a bit cheeky saying you can't upload commercials! Moan over. Anyway, going by the Vimeo upload settings I would imagine 720p is better for web video? Plus does anybody know any good hosting sites that aren't against people making a bit of money?? Many thanks Darren

February 9th, 2009, 12:20 PM	#13
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	I'm absolutely not sure what issue you're having. You can certainly put 1280x720 video on your site as long as the viewers have the bandwidth, computing power, screen real estate to playback the video. Many people don't want videos to take up that much screen real estate but it's certainly VERY EASY to do. Do your viewers have the internet speed? "Broadband" is meaningless since that can be as low as 384kbps on slow DSL connections. You need to know their speed. Speedtest.net - The Global Broadband Speed Test Frame size, data rate, screen real estate, internet connection speed. That's it. Nothing else to "research." You're not explaining what you're having the problem with. Last edited by Craig Seeman; February 9th, 2009 at 02:01 PM.

February 8th, 2009, 06:02 PM	#2
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	YouTube allows 720p video and even has a partnership program. I'm not sure if they support HD embedding offsite yet. Certainly many businesses use YouTube as part of their viral marketing campaigns. Generally 720p web video takes a fair amount of download data rate, usually around 2000kbps and up. That's NO PROBLEM for some areas but others can't come close. It depends what the speed is the typical internet connection of your targeted viewer.

February 9th, 2009, 09:44 AM	#3
Rob Collins Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 229	Exposure Room I believe has less strict rules: ExposureRoom However, you'd be wise to invest in Squeeze or Episode (the best Mac-friendly choices to my knowledge) to compress your own Flash video. Many companies want a bit more control over their sites. You can then use the JW Player with a commercial license: Order Commercial Licenses \| LongTail Video \| Home of the JW Player

February 9th, 2009, 11:28 AM	#4
Darren Ruddock Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southend, UK Posts: 165	Hi there, Exposure room only shows HD at full screen size. I dunno how it is working in the States but does not seem to be a lot of HD video on company websites in the UK at the moment. Can the average business website host HD video itself? The maximum length I would look at for a project would probably only be 1-3 minutes as a taster on the site. I have found encoding with H264 this can be crunched down to around to 160mb. For example, I have a possible job for a dog grooming parlor, max length 3 minutes to go on their site. So is flash a better bet for encoding than H264? Would a basic site (given that it had enough space) be able to handle the HD video? Many thanks. This seems a bit of a black art at the moment. I'm trying to find out if its possible! Darren Ruddock

February 9th, 2009, 11:52 AM	#6
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	The current favourite for company web video seems to be Brightcove. Although they do not offer HD as yet their video does look pretty good, certainly better than old pre HD Youtube. The NYT recently changed to Brightcove The NYTimes.com Prepares For HD Video; Drops the FeedRoom For Brightcove Dan

February 9th, 2009, 11:53 AM	#7
Darren Ruddock Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southend, UK Posts: 165	If so, then how come the native Vimeo window shows HD at a smaller size and the same size Exposure Room window does not allow this but only if you go to the full HD window....hmmm???? Exposure room gives you 3 frame sizes but HD is only viewable in the largest window. Nobody wants full size video on there website, just a scaled down high quality video such as the size displayed by the native Vimeo window or even smaller! I have no problems watching Vimeo videos. Most people now have broadband!

February 9th, 2009, 12:01 PM	#8
Rob Collins Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 229	We may need to clarify this. Are you intending to embed the video in HD in the client's site? If so, I would try to dissuade you--overkill for most viewers. Maybe put a link below the embedded video to an HD version for those interested. In addition to what Craig says about connection speed, the viewer's machine needs to be relatively new to be able to play back HD video smoothly. The size of the video should be based on the layout of the page. If it's a dedicated video page, then I like 640x360. But often a short video should be on the home page (even autoplay)--then maybe 400x226 or smaller. If you know going in that they want this, it should affect how you shoot--stay away from wide shots with small details in them. I'm doing Flash 8 video now (On2VP6) just because it's a bit more common and less chance a viewer will get to the page and have to upgrade their player. It's not quite as good as H264, but close. As to the hosting, if they use one of the bigger companies they should be fine--check to see what bandwidth they have.

February 9th, 2009, 12:07 PM	#10
Darren Ruddock Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southend, UK Posts: 165	This is what I mean. you guys are way ahead of us on this in the states! I spose I need to research more. It just seems a shame that having an EX1, it seems so hard to get a few minutes of quality footage onto a website!

February 9th, 2009, 12:13 PM	#11
Darren Ruddock Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southend, UK Posts: 165	Well I meant a scaled HD footage!! Sorry!! Still better than DV :)

February 9th, 2009, 12:17 PM	#12
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Darren, there is little available in the US that you can't use and buy in the UK (since Vimeo allowed plus membership worldwide) Most US and UK companies I know use Brightcove anyway, I'm not a great fan or anything, its just that Brightcove is aimed at biz users. http://www.brightcove.com/resources/...video-webcast/ Dan

February 9th, 2009, 12:24 PM	#14
Darren Ruddock Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southend, UK Posts: 165	HI Dan, Vimeo plus (the paid account) allows you to embed but they wont allow commercial work! They say you can use it to "show your work off" but not to embed corporate films on business sites. Understandable, but makes Vimeo Plus useless if you cannot embed into business sites. They want to keep Vimeo "pure" from commercialism! Nice idea, shame its the age of capitalism!

February 9th, 2009, 12:33 PM	#15
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	I know, that's why I'm suggesting you look at Brightcove. It's not HD but most companies seem happy with it. I only mention Vimeo Plus because it was the only thing I know that was initially available to US customers. The UK is no further behind than anywhere else as far as I know. Dan