Why are we so forgiving to the lousy ATW?

Tom Roper · May 26th, 2009, 11:58 PM

The zylight I was using to make observations with lets you shift the green/magenta balance independent of the color temperature. I was pointing it at a white wall. It was cloudy or rainy that day, and I thought I was doing the right thing gathering data under a controlled setting, but I was not actually moving the camera.

What I remember was that when the green level was boosted, the ATW was able to function in either direction, from daylight to tungsten AND from tungsten to daylight. If the green was reduced, it would go one way but not the other.

Bottom line as others have noted, in the practical sense ATW seems broken.

Mike Chandler · May 27th, 2009, 06:57 AM

Tom--my test was done moving the camera back and forth from window to lamp-lit area. When the brightness level was below a certain threshhold (i.e, when the lamp was too far away from the area I was filming), the atw from day to tung wounldn't change, but once brought up to a certain level, atw would change in both directions, albeit with always the 5 second delay minimum.

Tom Roper · May 27th, 2009, 08:39 AM

Mike, if not broken at least not dependable.

Mike Chandler · May 27th, 2009, 01:45 PM

Agreed. Time for a firmware update.

Zenes Petrusin · May 27th, 2009, 02:42 PM

yes, with fw 1.13 (EX1) ATW solved, my friend has new firmware and befour (fw1.11 or lower) got slow reacting time ATW or dont reacting ATW for change light but now with 1.13 reacting time from daylight to tungsten light and back is 5s max... i contacted my service center for update, another think with this fw is more speed AF and booting camera.

Mike Chandler · May 27th, 2009, 06:28 PM

The problem, Zenes, is that a 5-second delay is way too long to be of any practical use.

David C. Williams · May 27th, 2009, 08:35 PM

Then change ATW Speed to 1

Zenes Petrusin · May 27th, 2009, 11:35 PM

atw speed is change speed between change white from 1 (slower) to 5 (faster)
i think, reaction of ATW affects shock white setting.. this setings now works very well, befour no

Mike Chandler · May 30th, 2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David C. Williams

Then change ATW Speed to 1

That does nothing to adjust the time it takes for atw to kick in, merely the ramping once it does kick in.

Adam Reuter · May 30th, 2009, 04:35 PM

While I agree that with a $6K+ camera ATW should be better than a Best Buy-purchased camcorder...professionals should NOT be using this "feature"!

I always either white balance to Warm Cards (with my setup I'm just using the 100IRE White side of the card set most of the time) or set my color temperature with Preset. Indoors I am 3200K or 2000K and outdoors anywhere from 5600K on a cloudless day, 6300K overcast and 8000-9000K in the shade.

I use my still camera the same way. I NEVER use auto white balance because color correcting footage is a b*tch. I'd rather want 50 pictures or 5 minutes of footage that is a little off-white balance and is consistent than 5 minutes of footage that is off-white sometimes, perfectly white balanced another percentage off-white on the other side the other. Color correctors will agree with me whole-heartedly there!

Just like I never use auth-iris on the EX1! I wish there was a way to disable pretty much all auto features on the EX1 so that I don't accidentally bump a switch!

So...like others before have said, start using your camera the way it was meant to.

David C. Williams · May 30th, 2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Chandler

That does nothing to adjust the time it takes for atw to kick in, merely the ramping once it does kick in.

And? That's what the firmware fixes.

Tom Roper · May 30th, 2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Reuter

Just like I never use auth-iris on the EX1! I wish there was a way to disable pretty much all auto features on the EX1 so that I don't accidentally bump a switch!

No, what's needed is to have menu settings be part of the picture profile.

Mike Chandler · May 31st, 2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David C. Williams

And? That's what the firmware fixes.

David--I can't speak to the ex1 firmware fix, as I'm using an ex3, and while I have v1.03 firmware, my understanding is that 1.04 changed only the flicker reduce setting and didn't deal with atw. But based on what Zenes wrote...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenes Petrusin

but now with 1.13 reacting time from daylight to tungsten light and back is 5s max...

...I don't think the ex1 has been fixed much either. 5 seconds was what I was getting on average for the day to tungstgen delay on the ex3, (sometimes 6 or 7 depending on brightness,) which is still unacceptably slow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Reuter

.professionals should NOT be using this "feature"!...So...like others before have said, start using your camera the way it was meant to.

There are times when auto features can help, and walking from exterior to interior without having to stop shooting could be one of them. That it is a feature useable on some cameras , but not this one, is too bad. I don't mind using the servo to zoom with, and I wouldn't mind having this feature either.

Zenes Petrusin · June 1st, 2009, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Chandler

David--I can't speak to the ex1 firmware fix, as I'm using an ex3, and while I have v1.03 firmware, my understanding is that 1.04 changed only the flicker reduce setting and didn't deal with atw. But based on what Zenes wrote...

EX1 has flicker reduce setting firmware update too as EX3, this fw is 1.12.. But i think 1.13 corrected speeded booting camera and working with ATW, no reply from sony service what 1.13 realy has new or bug corrected.

Mike Chandler · June 1st, 2009, 06:53 AM

Then maybe there's a firmware coming for the ex3 that addresses atw?

May 27th, 2009, 06:57 AM	#47
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	Tom--my test was done moving the camera back and forth from window to lamp-lit area. When the brightness level was below a certain threshhold (i.e, when the lamp was too far away from the area I was filming), the atw from day to tung wounldn't change, but once brought up to a certain level, atw would change in both directions, albeit with always the 5 second delay minimum. __________________ www.packcreekproductions.com EX3, Mac Pro, FCP

May 27th, 2009, 01:45 PM	#49
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	Agreed. Time for a firmware update. __________________ www.packcreekproductions.com EX3, Mac Pro, FCP

May 27th, 2009, 06:28 PM	#51
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	The problem, Zenes, is that a 5-second delay is way too long to be of any practical use. __________________ www.packcreekproductions.com EX3, Mac Pro, FCP

May 27th, 2009, 08:35 PM	#52
David C. Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: melb.vic.au Posts: 447	Then change ATW Speed to 1 __________________ www.davidwilliams.com.au

June 1st, 2009, 06:53 AM	#60
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	Then maybe there's a firmware coming for the ex3 that addresses atw? __________________ www.packcreekproductions.com EX3, Mac Pro, FCP

May 26th, 2009, 11:58 PM	#46
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	The zylight I was using to make observations with lets you shift the green/magenta balance independent of the color temperature. I was pointing it at a white wall. It was cloudy or rainy that day, and I thought I was doing the right thing gathering data under a controlled setting, but I was not actually moving the camera. What I remember was that when the green level was boosted, the ATW was able to function in either direction, from daylight to tungsten AND from tungsten to daylight. If the green was reduced, it would go one way but not the other. Bottom line as others have noted, in the practical sense ATW seems broken.

May 27th, 2009, 08:39 AM	#48
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Mike, if not broken at least not dependable.

May 27th, 2009, 02:42 PM	#50
Zenes Petrusin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 52	yes, with fw 1.13 (EX1) ATW solved, my friend has new firmware and befour (fw1.11 or lower) got slow reacting time ATW or dont reacting ATW for change light but now with 1.13 reacting time from daylight to tungsten light and back is 5s max... i contacted my service center for update, another think with this fw is more speed AF and booting camera.

May 27th, 2009, 11:35 PM	#53
Zenes Petrusin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 52	atw speed is change speed between change white from 1 (slower) to 5 (faster) i think, reaction of ATW affects shock white setting.. this setings now works very well, befour no

May 30th, 2009, 04:35 PM	#55
Adam Reuter Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 234	While I agree that with a $6K+ camera ATW should be better than a Best Buy-purchased camcorder...professionals should NOT be using this "feature"! I always either white balance to Warm Cards (with my setup I'm just using the 100IRE White side of the card set most of the time) or set my color temperature with Preset. Indoors I am 3200K or 2000K and outdoors anywhere from 5600K on a cloudless day, 6300K overcast and 8000-9000K in the shade. I use my still camera the same way. I NEVER use auto white balance because color correcting footage is a b*tch. I'd rather want 50 pictures or 5 minutes of footage that is a little off-white balance and is consistent than 5 minutes of footage that is off-white sometimes, perfectly white balanced another percentage off-white on the other side the other. Color correctors will agree with me whole-heartedly there! Just like I never use auth-iris on the EX1! I wish there was a way to disable pretty much all auto features on the EX1 so that I don't accidentally bump a switch! So...like others before have said, start using your camera the way it was meant to.