Filter for IR contamination

Anthony McErlean · March 24th, 2009, 07:50 AM

I'm looking for the B+W 486 filter recommended. Not really sure what to order here in the UK but was wondering if this is the correct filter to get. £62.96

B+W 010 UV MRC SL 77mm Ultra Violet Filter (Multi-Resistant Coating - Slim Mount)

Thanks.

Derek Reich · March 24th, 2009, 08:17 AM

Hi, Anthony-
That filter you listed is incorrect. That one is a simple UV filter which will do nothing to reduce the IR contamination. This is the one you want:
B+W 486 UV/IR MRC SH 77mm Ultraviolet / Infrared Cut Filter

I have discussed this at length with Ryan Avery, the US rep for Schneider (B+W) filters. While he admits that there currently is no 'holy grail' filter for the EX for IR contamination, the 486 is the best option with the caveat that you cannot shoot full wide without some cyan vignetting. If you keep that in mind and shoot accordingly, this seems like the way to go. I have ordered the 4x4 version of this filter (called the Tru-Cut 680) and will post some results when I have had a chance to test it. I am hopeful that in most circumstances this filter will do the trick. One other thing: since this is a 'hot mirror' filter (it has reflective coatings) it MUST be the first filter light hits, so if you are using any other filter along with this, it must be positioned behind the 486.

I was tempted to try the Tiffen IRND filters described here:
ProVideo Coalition.com: Stunning Good Looks by Art Adams | Cinematography
but in the end went with Ryan's suggestion. The Tiffen filters cannot be used with any other ND filter (even the built-in ones on the camera) which severely limits the versatility of the filter, unless you have unlimited resources and can afford several of these filters each with a different level of ND. At around $300US each, that wasn't an attractive option.

Anthony McErlean · March 24th, 2009, 08:38 AM

Thank you Derek for giving me the correct link and the tips regarding using other filters along with it.

So do you think the Tru-Cut 680 might also eliminate cyan vignetting in the wide shots.

Thanks again.

Anthony McErlean · March 24th, 2009, 08:57 AM

Should have asked, does this filter stay on the lens at all times or are there certain times its needed, and fitted then.

Thanks.

Piotr Wozniacki · March 24th, 2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony McErlean

Should have asked, does this filter stay on the lens at all times or are there certain times its needed, and fitted then.

Thanks.

Anthony,

When I first bought the 486 (screw-on) filter, I was hoping to be able to keep it permanently on the lens. However, considering the vignetting at wide angles and the fact no other optical element must be present in front of it, I soon realize this is not viable.

BTW, Derek is buying the 4x4" version to be used with a matte box, I assume, which is the best solution especially when one is using a 35mm adaptor/lens. If only some manufacturer came out with a non-hot mirror (i.e. without the dichroic coating which causes vignetting), neutral-ND version...

Anthony McErlean · March 24th, 2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Anthony,

When I first bought the 486 (screw-on) filter, I was hoping to be able to keep it permanently on the lens. However, considering the vignetting at wide angles.... I soon realize this is not viable

Thanks Piotr for that, not the owner of a EX3,.. just yet, so when exactly does this filter be used, indoors or out.

Just placed the order for the 486 filter. Thanks Derek BTW.

Piotr Wozniacki · March 24th, 2009, 10:30 AM

Mainly indoors, as the red contamination problem is most pronounced under tungsten light.

However, it can also be visible with some fabrics under day light, especially with strong ND filtering.

Anthony McErlean · March 24th, 2009, 10:42 AM

Thanks again Piotr, so theres a bit of trial and error till you get the hang of it :)

Leonard Levy · March 24th, 2009, 10:53 AM

Is the 486 as effective outdoors as it is indoors. Has anyone tested that yet?

Piotr Wozniacki · March 24th, 2009, 11:04 AM

Yes Lenny - it's equally effective (100%).

Brian Cassar · March 24th, 2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony McErlean

Thanks again Piotr, so theres a bit of trial and error till you get the hang of it :)

Actually it is very easy - I keep the 486 in its protective plastic case in my pocket all the time - if and when I encounter the IR contamination I just screw it in. Yes it can be seen in daylight but is not so pronounced as under tungsten lights. Although it is true that the 486 gives you a slight green vignette at extreme wide angle, I'm pretty sure that in the case of event filming, the client will not notice it. We notice it because we know about it and we try to look for it. But if you are viewing the end product on a full HD 50" tv I'm sure that your eyes will mainly focus in the middle of the screen and will not notice the extreme edges. ...just my impression....

Anthony McErlean · March 24th, 2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Cassar

Actually it is very easy - I keep the 486 in its protective plastic case in my pocket all the time - if and when I encounter the IR contamination I just screw it in. ....

Hi Brian, again not the owner yet, of the EX3, so this can be seen right away in the EX1/3 viewfinder, blacks aren't black, so just screw the filter on when this happens.

Derek Reich · March 24th, 2009, 01:48 PM

Piotr is right.... I ordered the 4x4 version of the 486 because I use a matte box. I feel it's much easier managing and applying filters that way, plus I already own a large array of 4x4 filters. Also, then they can then be used with any lens I happen to mount on the camera.
I also agree with Piotr that you should not just leave this filter on all the time.... there are several reasons why which have already been addressed. It's best to have it on hand, and use it if/when you see the issue. Kind of like using a polarizer.... there are certain applications when a polarizer works great, but it's not something you'd want to keep on all the time. (speaking of polarizers.... make sure if you use one on the EX that it MUST be a 'circular' polarizer, and NOT a 'linear' polarizer. That is a whole other issue.....

I have seen the IR contamination in all lighting conditions, so there is no 'ideal' circumstance for this to occur. I have seen it in daylight, tungsten light, even HMI lighting. I just plan on popping the Tru-Cut filter in when I see a problem, otherwise it's in my filter kit standing by.

I haven't received my filter yet, but will be more than happy to share my experience with it when it arrives.

Happy shooting-

Brian Cassar · March 24th, 2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony McErlean

Hi Brian, again not the owner yet, of the EX3, so this can be seen right away in the EX1/3 viewfinder, blacks aren't black, so just screw the filter on when this happens.

Yes Anthony. Once you are aware of the issue you'll see it immediately in the colour viewfinder and then you'll just pop on the filter.

I would love to use 4x4 filters instead of screw in type (especially in this case) but unfortunately do not wish to buy a large matte box just for the filters. Also I do not wish to loose the function of the lens hood as I like the ability to close of the hinges when not filming. I've seen that the Z5 has a hood supplied with the wide angle accessory that accepts large filters. Does anyone know of something similar - maybe a slim filter holder that screws in front of the lens and then the hood can be mounted on top of it?

Daniel Alexander · March 29th, 2009, 08:20 AM

I not long recieved my 486 filter and thought I'd share my experiences to add to the collection. I done alot of testing to see if it really cured the reddish brown problem under all sorts of different lighting, different fabrics etc and I can report that i was able to get ALL my blacks looking black however there are side effects. I actually filmed a very short clip to demonstrate how effective the filter was along with my thoughts on the side effects etc, you can check it out at 486 filter test 'quick & dirty' on Vimeo

I plan to film a proper testing at some point, this clip really is only to demonstrate what the filter does for those wondering if they should spend the money or not. Hope it helps

March 24th, 2009, 08:17 AM	#107
Derek Reich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Washoe Valley, NV Posts: 304	Hi, Anthony- That filter you listed is incorrect. That one is a simple UV filter which will do nothing to reduce the IR contamination. This is the one you want: B+W 486 UV/IR MRC SH 77mm Ultraviolet / Infrared Cut Filter I have discussed this at length with Ryan Avery, the US rep for Schneider (B+W) filters. While he admits that there currently is no 'holy grail' filter for the EX for IR contamination, the 486 is the best option with the caveat that you cannot shoot full wide without some cyan vignetting. If you keep that in mind and shoot accordingly, this seems like the way to go. I have ordered the 4x4 version of this filter (called the Tru-Cut 680) and will post some results when I have had a chance to test it. I am hopeful that in most circumstances this filter will do the trick. One other thing: since this is a 'hot mirror' filter (it has reflective coatings) it MUST be the first filter light hits, so if you are using any other filter along with this, it must be positioned behind the 486. I was tempted to try the Tiffen IRND filters described here: ProVideo Coalition.com: Stunning Good Looks by Art Adams \| Cinematography but in the end went with Ryan's suggestion. The Tiffen filters cannot be used with any other ND filter (even the built-in ones on the camera) which severely limits the versatility of the filter, unless you have unlimited resources and can afford several of these filters each with a different level of ND. At around $300US each, that wasn't an attractive option. __________________ www.zooprax.com

March 24th, 2009, 10:30 AM	#112
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Mainly indoors, as the red contamination problem is most pronounced under tungsten light. However, it can also be visible with some fabrics under day light, especially with strong ND filtering. __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

March 24th, 2009, 11:04 AM	#115
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Yes Lenny - it's equally effective (100%). __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

March 24th, 2009, 01:48 PM	#118
Derek Reich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Washoe Valley, NV Posts: 304	Piotr is right.... I ordered the 4x4 version of the 486 because I use a matte box. I feel it's much easier managing and applying filters that way, plus I already own a large array of 4x4 filters. Also, then they can then be used with any lens I happen to mount on the camera. I also agree with Piotr that you should not just leave this filter on all the time.... there are several reasons why which have already been addressed. It's best to have it on hand, and use it if/when you see the issue. Kind of like using a polarizer.... there are certain applications when a polarizer works great, but it's not something you'd want to keep on all the time. (speaking of polarizers.... make sure if you use one on the EX that it MUST be a 'circular' polarizer, and NOT a 'linear' polarizer. That is a whole other issue..... I have seen the IR contamination in all lighting conditions, so there is no 'ideal' circumstance for this to occur. I have seen it in daylight, tungsten light, even HMI lighting. I just plan on popping the Tru-Cut filter in when I see a problem, otherwise it's in my filter kit standing by. I haven't received my filter yet, but will be more than happy to share my experience with it when it arrives. Happy shooting- __________________ www.zooprax.com

March 29th, 2009, 08:20 AM	#120
Daniel Alexander Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: West Midlands, UK Posts: 320	my results, 486 I not long recieved my 486 filter and thought I'd share my experiences to add to the collection. I done alot of testing to see if it really cured the reddish brown problem under all sorts of different lighting, different fabrics etc and I can report that i was able to get ALL my blacks looking black however there are side effects. I actually filmed a very short clip to demonstrate how effective the filter was along with my thoughts on the side effects etc, you can check it out at 486 filter test 'quick & dirty' on Vimeo I plan to film a proper testing at some point, this clip really is only to demonstrate what the filter does for those wondering if they should spend the money or not. Hope it helps

March 24th, 2009, 07:50 AM	#106
Anthony McErlean Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,081	I'm looking for the B+W 486 filter recommended. Not really sure what to order here in the UK but was wondering if this is the correct filter to get. £62.96 B+W 010 UV MRC SL 77mm Ultra Violet Filter (Multi-Resistant Coating - Slim Mount) Thanks.

March 24th, 2009, 08:38 AM	#108
Anthony McErlean Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,081	Thank you Derek for giving me the correct link and the tips regarding using other filters along with it. So do you think the Tru-Cut 680 might also eliminate cyan vignetting in the wide shots. Thanks again.

March 24th, 2009, 08:57 AM	#109
Anthony McErlean Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,081	Should have asked, does this filter stay on the lens at all times or are there certain times its needed, and fitted then. Thanks.

March 24th, 2009, 10:42 AM	#113
Anthony McErlean Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,081	Thanks again Piotr, so theres a bit of trial and error till you get the hang of it :)

March 24th, 2009, 10:53 AM	#114
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Is the 486 as effective outdoors as it is indoors. Has anyone tested that yet?