How are you guys archiving your EX-1 master edits.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

I do agree that Blu-ray is a better option and once the price comes down I will stop using HDV tapes for my secondary backup and just use Blu-ray instead.

I keep hearing people say this. How cheap do BluRay's need to get before this is viable for you? $5? $2. $0.25?

A quick search shows that 1hr HDV tapes are running about $6-8. BluRay 25GB disks are running about $7-10 at discounters. The EX1 shoots 16GB/hr. So right now, the cost is actually in favor of BluRay. And if we were to compare the costs of a BluRay burner to the cost of a deck that could write HDV, BluRay wins hands down.

So I don't know where the perception is that BluRay is some very expensive solution, when in fact, it's one of the cheapest backup solutions for HD media out there, if not THE cheapest. Is the problem simply perception? Yes, it is marginally more expensive than miniDV, but it beats out everything else.

[Bill Ravens]

I always archive to a project dedicated hard drive. I know that mag tape used to be the defacto archival standard, but, that was before my time. My experience with HDV tape is that it is extremely fragile and very prone to dropouts from the recording coating flaking off of the substrate. My worst nightmare would be to retrieve an HDV tape that was 2 years old and have it full of uncorrectable dropouts. Isn't this a very real problem for HDV tape?

[Thomas Smet]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

I keep hearing people say this. How cheap do BluRay's need to get before this is viable for you? $5? $2. $0.25?

A quick search shows that 1hr HDV tapes are running about $6-8. BluRay 25GB disks are running about $7-10 at discounters. The EX1 shoots 16GB/hr. So right now, the cost is actually in favor of BluRay. And if we were to compare the costs of a BluRay burner to the cost of a deck that could write HDV, BluRay wins hands down.

So I don't know where the perception is that BluRay is some very expensive solution, when in fact, it's one of the cheapest backup solutions for HD media out there, if not THE cheapest. Is the problem simply perception? Yes, it is marginally more expensive than miniDV, but it beats out everything else.

I never ever use cheap discs so my Blu-ray discs would cost around $12.00 give or take a few bucks. It isn't so much the cost of the discs however that are a problem for me. It is the failed burns and just that I still don't trust the format yet. Hey I'm used to expensive media. I still have to buy 184 minute DVCAM tapes for $30.00 a pop. As for mini DV tapes I never use the HDV versions which are virtually the same thing. I use regular mini DV tapes which I can get for about $2.00. Again this isn't my main backup so I don't really care if there is a random dropout here or there. So far (knock on wood) with dozens and dozens of tapes recorded this way I haven't had a single problem.

Again it isn't so much that I can't afford Blu-ray discs it is just that for the money I want to see the format mature a bit more first. I would be willing to spend a lot per disc if I knew the technology had all the kinks worked out. There is still part of me that wonders if Blu-ray will make it yet. Lets be totally honest here, for as much as we all love HD and really want a HD disc product we have to admit that Blu-ray wasn't really the best invention of the 21st century. I really want Blu-ray to do well but the format was fumbled from the beginning. It has come a long way but it still has a ways to go. As a data format it isn't bad but I think they can do better and I'm sure that better is just around the corner..

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

I never ever use cheap discs so my Blu-ray discs would cost around $12.00 give or take a few bucks. It isn't so much the cost of the discs however that are a problem for me. It is the failed burns and just that I still don't trust the format yet. Hey I'm used to expensive media. I still have to buy 184 minute DVCAM tapes for $30.00 a pop. As for mini DV tapes I never use the HDV versions which are virtually the same thing. I use regular mini DV tapes which I can get for about $2.00. Again this isn't my main backup so I don't really care if there is a random dropout here or there. So far (knock on wood) with dozens and dozens of tapes recorded this way I haven't had a single problem.

Again it isn't so much that I can't afford Blu-ray discs it is just that for the money I want to see the format mature a bit more first. I would be willing to spend a lot per disc if I knew the technology had all the kinks worked out. There is still part of me that wonders if Blu-ray will make it yet. Lets be totally honest here, for as much as we all love HD and really want a HD disc product we have to admit that Blu-ray wasn't really the best invention of the 21st century. I really want Blu-ray to do well but the format was fumbled from the beginning. It has come a long way but it still has a ways to go. As a data format it isn't bad but I think they can do better and I'm sure that better is just around the corner..

First commercial Blu-Ray discs shipped June 2006. It's been about 2.5 years now. I understand that people make their own choices, but quite honestly, with the data market, Hollywood, Sony, and others behind the technology, I don't think it's going anywhere soon.

My interests are not in BluRay as a delivery medium, but for data storage. And I have yet to have a bad burn. My burns are slow, but every one has been perfect, and I am using the dual layers. I am quite happy I don't have to buy 276 minute large DV and 64 minute DVCam tapes any more!

[Mitchell Lewis]

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

I never ever use cheap discs so my Blu-ray discs would cost around $12.00 give or take a few bucks. It isn't so much the cost of the discs however that are a problem for me. It is the failed burns and just that I still don't trust the format yet. Hey I'm used to expensive media. I still have to buy 184 minute DVCAM tapes for $30.00 a pop. As for mini DV tapes I never use the HDV versions which are virtually the same thing. I use regular mini DV tapes which I can get for about $2.00. Again this isn't my main backup so I don't really care if there is a random dropout here or there. So far (knock on wood) with dozens and dozens of tapes recorded this way I haven't had a single problem.

Again it isn't so much that I can't afford Blu-ray discs it is just that for the money I want to see the format mature a bit more first. I would be willing to spend a lot per disc if I knew the technology had all the kinks worked out. There is still part of me that wonders if Blu-ray will make it yet. Lets be totally honest here, for as much as we all love HD and really want a HD disc product we have to admit that Blu-ray wasn't really the best invention of the 21st century. I really want Blu-ray to do well but the format was fumbled from the beginning. It has come a long way but it still has a ways to go. As a data format it isn't bad but I think they can do better and I'm sure that better is just around the corner..

So all the broadcast news and post production houses shooting on XDCAM HD (Blu-Ray) including the latest Survivor episodes don't count? I think that Blu-Ray is very established in the professional realm, it's the consumer realm that it still needs to concur.

[Keith Moreau]

I've just ordered my 2nd Drobo to safely back up my media. The Drobo isn't 100% safe, but it's as safe as a RAID 1 or a RAID 5 with some pretty good features. It's quite simple to set up, and is pretty 'future proof' (as long as Drobo stays in business). It takes up to 4 drives, and if 1 of the drives fails it will still function with no data loss and allows you to replace the defective drive.

I have 4 1TB green drives in the unit I currently have, and ordered another 4 for the new one. 4 TB of drives gets about 2.7TB of usable storage. Those drives are about $100 each if you shop. The Drobo is currently available for $450 and they are running a $50 rebate for a few days this month. When I do the math it's hard to get RAID redundant storage for less from another vendor.

I like the design and thought put into the Drobo, the interface is good, and I like that it can email you with status, from level of 'info' to 'emergency.' The Drobo is actually a fairly smart computer, with easily upgradable firmwire via the internet and it's "Drobo" application running on the PC or Mac it's attached to.

I believe what I'm going to standardize is on is Drobo for online backups, internal or external eSATA RAIDs for online work where speed is important, and Taiyo Yuden Premium DVD-R's for offline archiving. I may even make a couple copies of the media on DVD-Rs and keep them offsite.

The thing about the Drobos is that they are fast enough for online editing in a pinch, especially for EX1 footage which doesn't need the extreme throughput of less compressed formats.

[Mitchell Lewis]

I love the Drobo. It's what I wanted for our backup drive, but couldn't afford it at the time. (it was like $1200 vs $850 for a 2TB drive)

[Keith Moreau]

Originally Posted by Mitchell Lewis

I love the Drobo. It's what I wanted for our backup drive, but couldn't afford it at the time. (it was like $1200 vs $850 for a 2TB drive)

Yeah, now it's about $830 or so for 2.7TB formatted storage, so quite a bit less than it was. I think I paid about $1,100 for the first 2.7TB Drobo just a few months ago. As raw drives get cheaper it gets to be more of a good deal. Also as drives get larger you can hot-swap the larger drive and the total size grows. As 2TB's become more of a reality I'll take out the 1TB, use them for something else.

Thing about hard drives is I don't trust them. They don't fail often but if and when then do you better be prepared with a good redundant backup scheme.

[Arvin Berner]

I archive files to VXA tape, and a second hard drive.

[Jon Braeley]

I looked into the Drobo but to me it looks a lot like external eSATA RAID anyway - just in a nice box and it'd FW or USB, which sound like a bottleneck. Am I wrong - can this also be used for editing realtime?
I was also dismayed by the failure rate of the Drobo - quite a few online reviews talk about this, but I guess all hardrive solutions are in this boat.
I had two HD's fail in the same week last month - one internal and one external sata raid. I bought disk warrior and it worked like a dream. In fact, it also rescued an old drive that failed 4 years ago, that no one could revive!
With drives, its usually the directory that breaks down and though it may seem like a mechanical failure it is not.
Now DVD really scares me for archives. 50% of my older DVD discs (over 4 yrs old) are not readable anymore - Toyo brand, which are supposed to be good.

[Paul Kellett]

I've just got hold of a program called "Allway Sync".
It synchronises files between different folders or even completely different hard drives.
My western digital hard dive used for editing gets mirrored/sync'd to seperate external drive.
Everey hour the allway sync program looks for anything which has been added or deleted from the WD drive, any differences are then applied to the other (target) drive.

The good thing about this is that i also only have to offload footage from my sdhc cards once, onto my WD drive, the footage will now automatically get copied to the target drive.
So apart from the safety aspect, it's also sped up my workflow.

You can have as many drives sync'd as you want, i've actually got 2 external drives being sync'd to the target (3rd) drive, with a 1 way sync, ie the sync only goes FROM the destination drive(s) TO the target drive. 2 way sync is possible though.

Here's the link if anyones interested, best of all the program is free !.

Allway Sync: Free File Synchronization, Backup, Data Replication, PC Sync Software, Freeware, File Sync, Data Synchronization Software


Paul.

[Tom Vaughan]

Not to knock the Drobo or other NAS solutions, but for anyone thinking of backing up to hard drive I would recommend that you take a look at building or buying a Windows Home Server. The WHS has a very advanced storage system that avoids storing any file twice. Each time you back up your PC it checks to see if it already has a copy of each file, or a version of the file (it does this at the cluster level). If so, it makes a record of this, but doesn't store another copy of the file (or part of the file). You can do automatic backups of your primary machine (including your EDLs) on any schedule that you want. You can fully restore a crashed or corrupted machine to any backup date.

Of course, I keep my video files outside of my system backups... but I store these to a video folder on the WHS that is designated to be kept on at least 2 drives. If a hard drive fails, I haven't lost any files... I simply replace it, and the system is back to having redundant copies of all of my important files.

It's infinitely expandable, and you get the protection of RAID without the complexity.

You can buy a large full tower enclosure, a fairly cheap low-power AMD X2 processor, and start with a couple of 1 TB drives for under $600, including the OS.

[Alister Chapman]

I know this applies to many types of backup but what happens to your windows home server if the power supply fails and passes an over voltage to your raid array, mother board and everything else? You end up with a completely dead backup. One of the advantages of tape backups, BD or DVD is that a hardware failure is unlikely to lead to the loss of any data. I'm not sure I want to use a backup system that consumes half a kilowatt of power, not very green. I have a small linux server running on a box called an NSUL2 from Linksys. It only draws about 30 watts and you can hang a couple of USB drives off it (or more if you add a hub). I have a coupe of 500Gb drives on it and use the drives as a pair of backups. Once they are full I replace them with a couple more. The drives are independently powered so failure of both together while not impossible is unlikely. It's not the fastest device in the world but works fine as a network based backup device. If I need to edit from my backups I just unplug the drive from the NSUL2 and plug it in to the computer directly. All my important material is still being burnt to DL-DVD or BD.

[Keith Moreau]

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

I've just got hold of a program called "Allway Sync".
It synchronises files between different folders or even completely different hard drives.
.

For those Mac users out there is something similar I use all the time called Chronosync. It isn't free but is pretty inexpensive. You can run various schedules to sync up drives or folders at any time. It has lots of feature including email notification and data verification. It can sync bi-directionally as well. It can also make a type of 'incremental backup' if it finds that something has been deleted on the 'from' folder, it won't necessarily delete those items but can put it into a 'archive' folder on the destination so you can double check that you really want to delete them.

I have various schedules. I download EX1 (and other flash based footage) to folder on a fast RAID and then have that folder sync'd in the middle of the night.

[Mitchell Lewis]

Roxio Toast 8 came with a free backup program called Deja Vu. It worked great. You could schedule backups any time you wanted, etc.... But when Leopard/Time Machine came out, we stopped using it. I would highly recommend it though. Easy to use.