HD>SD downconversion Mac/FCP only at DVinfo.net

Leonard Levy · December 20th, 2008, 11:18 AM

I've been totally confused (and alarmed) by all the threads about HD to SD downconversion recently and thought it might help if we could at least separate the discussion by platforms and editing systems. Right now anyone facing this problem would just get buried. The aim eventually should be getting a few stickies here that people could reference.

So for a start how about making this one only for Mac OS. Further I would like to get suggestions for 2 separate issues.

1. Downconverting to an SD DVD.
2. Downconverting just to SD quicktimes. We all have clients who actually might have preferred to just shoot in SD or need footage to cut into an SD show, but we may have only an EX-1 to offer them. I would like to be able to hand them downconverted DV files or say " "Just do ...... with those files I gave you."

Another set of threads for other platforms and programs could run separately.

Leonard Levy

Dominik Seibold · December 20th, 2008, 11:24 AM

YouTube - high-quality HD to SD-DVD conversion with FCP

Bob Jackson · December 20th, 2008, 11:48 AM

video seems to be missing sound?

Perrone Ford · December 20th, 2008, 12:10 PM

Probably doesn't matter unless you speak German.

Steve Shovlar · December 20th, 2008, 01:12 PM

Easy solution. Buy a copy of Cinema Craft Encoder MP.

Sorted!

CINEMA CRAFT Encoder SP2 - OMNI-CINEMA CRAFT

Dominik Seibold · December 20th, 2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Jackson

video seems to be missing sound?

This video was actually just a quick test of youtubes new HD-capability, so I didn't record my voice.

Leonard Levy · December 20th, 2008, 09:32 PM

Cinema Craft sounds great, but I can't spring $800 right now just to be able to downconvert.
If I was a post house it would be no big deal, but I'm just a poor cameraman.

Dominik - I haven't looked at your you tube post yet, but was wondering if it details a good method for making SD DV quicktimes as well as going straight to DVD?

- Lenny

Mitchell Lewis · December 20th, 2008, 09:52 PM

Here's a much cheaper alternative ($39).

CRAMCompressor

Evan Meades · December 20th, 2008, 10:08 PM

Thanks Leonard for suggesting this idea! The multiple posts are confusing!
Maybe the "best" of these suggestions could be in the stickie.

Evan

Christopher Drews · December 21st, 2008, 03:26 AM

The Matrox MXO (version 1 - not MXO2) is the best hardware solution I've come across for on the fly down converting. You can tell the MXO to down convert your FCP timeline and use the component output cables to a stand alone DVD recorder. If you have another FCP system, you can down convert out from the MXO straight into a SD final cut capture card, thus creating your SD QuickTimes. I do this on a daily basis for my clients.

The MXO in my opinion is the easiest, no hassle way to down covert any HD format on the fly (system requirements apply). Matrox have created an amazing product with the MXO, as this was just a bonus feature they threw in. Unbelievable!

-C

Steve Shovlar · December 21st, 2008, 07:28 AM

Had a couple of days playing around with Cinema craft Encoder MP. Of course one small problem I do have is that I shoot weddings at 720P50, so when I encoded in Encodr MP, everything is 50% speed because it compresses at 25 FPS.

So I exported as a quicktime coversion H.264 best 25FPS Pal 16:9 and bring that into Cmpressor and then out via the Encoder MP and went with a 10 pass VBR.

I then ran a straight compressor version 2 pass VBR and compared the two when I dropped them into DVDSP.

The Encoder MP version looked better than the straight Compressor version. However, I am not happy with having to convert to H.264 so there must be a better intermediate codec to use which is lossless and allows me to go from 50 frames a second to 25FPS.

Thoughts?

Dominik Seibold · December 21st, 2008, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonard Levy

Dominik - I haven't looked at your you tube post yet, but was wondering if it details a good method for making SD DV quicktimes as well as going straight to DVD?

Of course. The only difference is that you choose DV instead of mpeg2 as output-format.
But you shouldn't use DV as an intermediate codec, because it uses different color-sampling compared to progressive mpeg2. So you would loose chroma-resolution. Also DV is not free of compression-artifacts.

Leonard Levy · December 22nd, 2008, 11:02 PM

Christopher,
That's an interesting idea. I have a copy of MXO though I've never successfully set it up for video monitoring. ( I probably just haven't worked on it enough.)
Could you use Matrox MXO to output SD to either a DV recorder ( or camera )with either Y/C inputs or component inputs thus allowing you to go from the DV tape to DV quicktimes?
How good would this quality be?

Dominik,

"But you shouldn't use DV as an intermediate codec, because it uses different color-sampling compared to progressive mpeg2. So you would loose chroma-resolution. Also DV is not free of compression-artifacts."

Would that DV look worse than footage originally shot as DV in another camera?

I'm thinking about the situation of shooting footage on an EX-1 for a client who actually would have preferred a DV camera in the first place. In this place it would be an intermediate codec.

Lenny

Dominik Seibold · December 23rd, 2008, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonard Levy

Would that DV look worse than footage originally shot as DV in another camera?

It will look better.

Evan Meades · December 23rd, 2008, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Drews

The Matrox MXO (version 1 - not MXO2) is the best hardware solution I've come across for on the fly down converting. You can tell the MXO to down convert your FCP timeline and use the component output cables to a stand alone DVD recorder. If you have another FCP system, you can down convert out from the MXO straight into a SD final cut capture card, thus creating your SD QuickTimes. I do this on a daily basis for my clients.

The MXO in my opinion is the easiest, no hassle way to down covert any HD format on the fly (system requirements apply). Matrox have created an amazing product with the MXO, as this was just a bonus feature they threw in. Unbelievable!

-C

Hi Christopher, sounds good! But why not the MXO2 version?

I tried something similar by using the EX3's SDI SD output to play out (720P50) and record a 1 1/2 hour program straight to my DVD recorder> I used my Blackmagic Declink SD card so I could monitor the SDI signal/sound. Worked well, although I had to use the DV D recorder's S input (best it has) plus do bit of post tweaking to the VOB file via MpegStreamclip (losslessly I believe & quick!) to get a m2v/ac3.

Saves a lot of time, especially for a long recording. Not sure about using this method for shorter projects as although the SDI output with SD downconvert was the best signal out I believe, I'm not sure it beats other software methods.

Do you think the MXO would be better?

Evan

December 20th, 2008, 11:18 AM	#1
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	HD>SD downconversion Mac/FCP only I've been totally confused (and alarmed) by all the threads about HD to SD downconversion recently and thought it might help if we could at least separate the discussion by platforms and editing systems. Right now anyone facing this problem would just get buried. The aim eventually should be getting a few stickies here that people could reference. So for a start how about making this one only for Mac OS. Further I would like to get suggestions for 2 separate issues. 1. Downconverting to an SD DVD. 2. Downconverting just to SD quicktimes. We all have clients who actually might have preferred to just shoot in SD or need footage to cut into an SD show, but we may have only an EX-1 to offer them. I would like to be able to hand them downconverted DV files or say " "Just do ...... with those files I gave you." Another set of threads for other platforms and programs could run separately. Leonard Levy

December 20th, 2008, 11:48 AM	#3
Bob Jackson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Republic of Vancouver Island Posts: 200	video seems to be missing sound? __________________ Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. AC Clarke

December 20th, 2008, 12:10 PM	#4
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Probably doesn't matter unless you speak German. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

December 20th, 2008, 09:52 PM	#8
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Here's a much cheaper alternative ($39). CRAMCompressor __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

December 20th, 2008, 11:24 AM	#2
Dominik Seibold Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Nuremberg, Germany Posts: 285	YouTube - high-quality HD to SD-DVD conversion with FCP

December 20th, 2008, 01:12 PM	#5
Steve Shovlar Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dorset UK Posts: 697	Easy solution. Buy a copy of Cinema Craft Encoder MP. Sorted! CINEMA CRAFT Encoder SP2 - OMNI-CINEMA CRAFT

December 20th, 2008, 09:32 PM	#7
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Cinema Craft sounds great, but I can't spring $800 right now just to be able to downconvert. If I was a post house it would be no big deal, but I'm just a poor cameraman. Dominik - I haven't looked at your you tube post yet, but was wondering if it details a good method for making SD DV quicktimes as well as going straight to DVD? - Lenny

December 20th, 2008, 10:08 PM	#9
Evan Meades Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 68	Thanks Leonard for suggesting this idea! The multiple posts are confusing! Maybe the "best" of these suggestions could be in the stickie. Evan

December 21st, 2008, 03:26 AM	#10
Christopher Drews Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 628	The Matrox MXO (version 1 - not MXO2) is the best hardware solution I've come across for on the fly down converting. You can tell the MXO to down convert your FCP timeline and use the component output cables to a stand alone DVD recorder. If you have another FCP system, you can down convert out from the MXO straight into a SD final cut capture card, thus creating your SD QuickTimes. I do this on a daily basis for my clients. The MXO in my opinion is the easiest, no hassle way to down covert any HD format on the fly (system requirements apply). Matrox have created an amazing product with the MXO, as this was just a bonus feature they threw in. Unbelievable! -C

December 21st, 2008, 07:28 AM	#11
Steve Shovlar Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dorset UK Posts: 697	Had a couple of days playing around with Cinema craft Encoder MP. Of course one small problem I do have is that I shoot weddings at 720P50, so when I encoded in Encodr MP, everything is 50% speed because it compresses at 25 FPS. So I exported as a quicktime coversion H.264 best 25FPS Pal 16:9 and bring that into Cmpressor and then out via the Encoder MP and went with a 10 pass VBR. I then ran a straight compressor version 2 pass VBR and compared the two when I dropped them into DVDSP. The Encoder MP version looked better than the straight Compressor version. However, I am not happy with having to convert to H.264 so there must be a better intermediate codec to use which is lossless and allows me to go from 50 frames a second to 25FPS. Thoughts?

December 22nd, 2008, 11:02 PM	#13
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Christopher, That's an interesting idea. I have a copy of MXO though I've never successfully set it up for video monitoring. ( I probably just haven't worked on it enough.) Could you use Matrox MXO to output SD to either a DV recorder ( or camera )with either Y/C inputs or component inputs thus allowing you to go from the DV tape to DV quicktimes? How good would this quality be? Dominik, "But you shouldn't use DV as an intermediate codec, because it uses different color-sampling compared to progressive mpeg2. So you would loose chroma-resolution. Also DV is not free of compression-artifacts." Would that DV look worse than footage originally shot as DV in another camera? I'm thinking about the situation of shooting footage on an EX-1 for a client who actually would have preferred a DV camera in the first place. In this place it would be an intermediate codec. Lenny