HD>SD downconversion Mac/FCP only

[Dominik Seibold]

Originally Posted by Steve Shovlar

As I shoot 95% weddings the client mostly wants the video look, so that's what they get.

If the video-look is a goal, then convert to interlaced SD not to progressive. That's much more effective concerning the video-look than ugly sharpening.

[Nick Stone]

Ive read this thread form top to bottom and i'm still confused with Dominik's work flow.

So to get the best convert from HD to SD mpeg is to check the re-scaler to best and turn detail of on the EX camera.
Is this the work flow?

[Dominik Seibold]

Originally Posted by Nick Stone

So to get the best convert from HD to SD mpeg is to check the re-scaler to best and turn detail of on the EX camera.
Is this the work flow?

Yes, it is.

[Mitchell Lewis]

Okay, let me try to summerize this thread: (this is really a question for Dominik)

Do we go with Option #1 or #2?

OPTION #1 (scale to DV in FCP)
1) With no project open, go to Easy Setup and choose NTSC and DV
2) Create a new project
3) Import your XDCAM footage
4) Drop the footage into your timeline and edit as necessary
5) Choose NO when FCP asks whether to conform the sequence to your footage
6) Choose "Export to Compressor"
7) In Compressor assign the DV NTSC preset (or MPEG-2 for Standard Def DVD)
8) In the Frames>Rescaler tab, turn it on and choose Best
9) Submit and your done

OPTION #2 (don't scale in FCP)
1) With no project open, go to Easy Setup and choose HD and the appropriate XDCAM-EX preset
2) Create a new project
3) Import your XDCAM footage
4) Drop the footage into your timeline and edit as necessary
5) Choose "Export to Compressor"
6) In Compressor assign the DV NTSC preset (or MPEG-2 for Standard Def DVD)
7) In the Frames>Rescaler tab, turn it on and choose Best
8) Submit and your done

I've watched Dominik's video a number of times now and I can't tell exactly what he's doing, so I thought I'd clarify. (it doesn't help that it's all on German! hehehehe)

[Steve Shovlar]

Hey Dominik, I would like to thank you for your advice on this thread.
You come over as a very straight talking guy but I like that.

Cheers
Steve

[Dominik Seibold]

@Mitchell
option1->step8: Compressors rescaler-settings have no effect here, because all rescaling happens in FCP.

You forgot option3:
1. edit on a hd-timeline
2. drop that hd-timeline on a sd-timeline

I would go with option2 or option3, because I like to edit on a hd-timeline. Editing on a hd-timeline gives you that hd-"supersampling" which will increase the quality of some effects and (text-)graphics. Also you can export a hd-version of your edit at any time if you would like it (keyword: flexibility).
Option2 will give you slightly better quality when Compressors rescaling is set to best, but option3 will be significantly faster.

Originally Posted by Mitchell Lewis

I've watched Dominik's video a number of times now and I can't tell exactly what he's doing, so I thought I'd clarify.

Which moments/seconds are unclear?

[Nick Stone]

Dominik,
What are your thoughts on bit rate?
Avg
Max
Min
My work are 30mins features so fitting on to a DVD is easy.

[Steve Shovlar]

Originally Posted by Nick Stone

Dominik,
What are your thoughts on bit rate?
Avg
Max
Min
My work are 30mins features so fitting on to a DVD is easy.

NIck I can say from experience, don't go above 8000 or you will choke older DVD players and have to remake the DVD with a lower rate.

Average 6000
min 2000
max 8000.

[Dominik Seibold]

Originally Posted by Nick Stone

My work are 30mins features so fitting on to a DVD is easy.

Originally Posted by Steve Shovlar

, don't go above 8000 or you will choke older DVD players

If 8000 is the "choke-limit" and you have 30min to encode, then go with 8000 CBR. Because 30min with 8000 CBR fit on a DVD, you don't need to go lower in any part of your clip, so you don't need VBR.

[Nick Stone]

Thanks,
I have always thought by using CBR will give better results than VBR if the material will fit onto a DVD.

[Leonard Levy]

I appreciate Mitchell's attempt to summarize (since I am lost again and have been waiting for just such a summary), but in option #1 if you drop the EX-1 footage into a DV SD timeline and choose NO when asked to conform the sequence to the footage won't you just be saddled with constant needs to render?

[Steve Shovlar]

Originally Posted by Leonard Levy

I appreciate Mitchell's attempt to summarize (since I am lost again and have been waiting for just such a summary), but in option #1 if you drop the EX-1 footage into a DV SD timeline and choose NO when asked to conform the sequence to the footage won't you just be saddled with constant needs to render?

NO. You have to render then you output. You don't do any further editing once you have brought it onto the SD timeline. All editing is finished in HD beforehand.

[Mitchell Lewis]

Okay, I think I've got it:

OPTION #3 (import your finished HD sequence into an SD sequence)
1) With no project open, go to Easy Setup and choose HD and the appropriate XDCAM-EX preset
2) Create a new HD / XDCAM-EX project
3) Import your XDCAM-EX footage
4) Drop the footage into your HD timeline and edit as necessary
5) Create a new SD sequence (create a new sequence, go to Sequence Settings, and change the settings to and SD format. See note #1 below)
6) Final Cut will scale your HD sequence to fit letter-boxed in an SD frame. Optionally you could choose to increase the scale so that it fills the frame, but looses the L/R sides. This is called "center-cut".
7) Choose "Export to Compressor"
8) In Compressor assign the DV NTSC preset (or MPEG-2 for Standard Def DVD)
9) In the Frames>Rescaler tab, turn it on and choose Best
10) Submit and your done

NOTE #1: What are the recommended sequence settings for the SD sequence? Standard DV? DVCPRO50, DVCPRO100? Uncompressed? Can you even set a Sequence to Uncompressed HD? (I'm at home right now, so I don't have FCP in front of me.....I'm thinking of installing FCS2 on my laptop!)

NOTE #2: Dominik hasn't talked much about interlacing. For example, what if you shot in 1080 30P and want your end result to be 480 30i? Will the Compressor take care of this automatically?

As always....more questions. :)

[Nick Stone]

I to have wondered what SD Seq settings I should be using.
This is what I would like to know:
Easy Setup?
Pal SD seq settings?
Quick Time video settings / compression setting?
Advanced Compressor Type?
Field Dominace if I have interlaced footage? ( Should I de-interlace in FCP)

I'm sure there is more

[Darren Ruddock]

Hi there,

I have read this thread with great interest, although a lot of it is fairly intricate stuff!. As a new owner of an EX1 I find I am constantly learning about this camera and getting more confident.

The whole down converting issue seems to be a huge bugbear. I have tried a few ways and thus far the best results come from simply exporting to compressor straight from the HD timeline, with the best quality DVD 90 minute setting.

I haven't done an massive projects yet but have done stuff with motion graphics and text effects. I spose for you guys doing huge long projects that fill a DVD then rendering in the HD timeline is the prob?!?!

My main concerns with the end result have been aliasing and unnatural movement , kinda jerky on certain subjects.

I just wonder what each of our expectations are. Some people seem to be happy with results and others not so. Be great if we all had one clip and used our differing down conversion methods to see if we could compare our results and see what each others expectations are!

Interesting stuff!!